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Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

parliament.nz

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Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#21

Post by thundergolfer »

alannallama wrote: post #17
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #9

> Ardern went on to say she absolutely believed climate change was the "biggest challenge of our time" and the "nuclear moment" for this generation. I find it ironic the prime minister is using “nuclear” as a pejorative when it was the left’s irrational opposition to nuclear power that resulted in much of the world's electricity being produced by fossil fuels. If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would…

I agree with your frustration about the green movement's knee-jerk rejection of nuclear power, but in NZ anti-nuclear policy was a very galvanising touchpoint for the environmental and anti-war movements, so there's a bit more context there. Nuclear-free and the Springbok protests are referenced constantly as progressive wins.

"anti-nuclear" mean anti the weapons or anti the power?

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#22

Post by crummy »

thundergolfer wrote: post #21
alannallama wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your frustration about the green movement's knee-jerk rejection of nuclear power, but in NZ anti-nuclear policy was a very galvanising touchpoint for the environmental and anti-war movements, so there's a bit more context there. Nuclear-free and the Springbok protests are referenced constantly as progressive wins.

"anti-nuclear" mean anti the weapons or anti the power?

both; nuclear-anything is banned in NZ

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#23

Post by [deleted] »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #9

> Ardern went on to say she absolutely believed climate change was the "biggest challenge of our time" and the "nuclear moment" for this generation. I find it ironic the prime minister is using “nuclear” as a pejorative when it was the left’s irrational opposition to nuclear power that resulted in much of the world's electricity being produced by fossil fuels. If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would…

[deleted]

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#24

Post by zknz »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #18
Guest42 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have sources regarding the "left's irrational opposition to nuclear power"?

The left in New Zealand literally banned all forms of nuclear energy, going as far as prohibiting essentially all US Navy vessels from entering its waters just in case they had fissile material on board.

This is a mainstream political position in NZ, not one of the "left".

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#25

Post by crummy »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #18
Guest42 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have sources regarding the "left's irrational opposition to nuclear power"?

The left in New Zealand literally banned all forms of nuclear energy, going as far as prohibiting essentially all US Navy vessels from entering its waters just in case they had fissile material on board.

I thought it was more that NZ banned nuclear weapons and the US didn't want to confirm or deny the presence of such weapons on board any ships so they weren't able to visit.

I guess it's a manner of perspective.

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#26

Post by [deleted] »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #9

> Ardern went on to say she absolutely believed climate change was the "biggest challenge of our time" and the "nuclear moment" for this generation. I find it ironic the prime minister is using “nuclear” as a pejorative when it was the left’s irrational opposition to nuclear power that resulted in much of the world's electricity being produced by fossil fuels. If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would…

[deleted]

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#27

Post by AmericanChopper »

zknz wrote: post #24
AmericanChopper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left in New Zealand literally banned all forms of nuclear energy, going as far as prohibiting essentially all US Navy vessels from entering its waters just in case they had fissile material on board.

This is a mainstream political position in NZ, not one of the "left".

It’s actually a very controversial position, implemented by a left wing government.

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#28

Post by phs318u »

marcusverus wrote: post #8
ConceitedCode wrote: post #3

Full digest of the bill - https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/bills-and-laws/bills-digests... Lots to read over, but this stuck out to me so far. "gross emissions of biogenic methane in a calendar year are 10% less than 2017 emissions by the calendar year beginning on 1 January 2030; and are at least 24% to 47% less than 2017 emissions by the calendar year beginning on 1 January 2050 and for each subsequent calendar year…

Unless they plan to ban the consumption of meat, the biogenic methane cap seems like it would result in more emissions. If Kiwis don't grow their own beef, they will just have it shipped from abroad. Same consumption pattern, no global change in gross biogenic methane, but now there is the added emissions of shipping the beef across an ocean. Also, I can scarcely think of a more Orwellian idea than that Kiwis may soo…

There are other approaches to livestock methane reduction being actively investigated (and I’d suggest more promising than perennial unicorns such as carbon sequestration).

One example: https://blog.csiro.au/feeding-seaweed-to-cows-our-livestock-...

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#29

Post by AmericanChopper »

crummy wrote: post #25
AmericanChopper wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The left in New Zealand literally banned all forms of nuclear energy, going as far as prohibiting essentially all US Navy vessels from entering its waters just in case they had fissile material on board.

I thought it was more that NZ banned nuclear weapons and the US didn't want to confirm or deny the presence of such weapons on board any ships so they weren't able to visit. I guess it's a manner of perspective.

The ban applies to nuclear propulsion too. Excluding a large amount of Navy vessels off the bat. The rest being excluded because Navies tend not to advertise which ships are nuclear armed. The great irony of that being that those same ships protect a lot of water that NZ exporters rely on for shipping.

Re: Climate Change Response (Zero Carbon) Amendment Bill

#30

Post by Taniwha »

alannallama wrote: post #17
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #9

> Ardern went on to say she absolutely believed climate change was the "biggest challenge of our time" and the "nuclear moment" for this generation. I find it ironic the prime minister is using “nuclear” as a pejorative when it was the left’s irrational opposition to nuclear power that resulted in much of the world's electricity being produced by fossil fuels. If we had embraced nuclear power 2 decades ago, we would…

I agree with your frustration about the green movement's knee-jerk rejection of nuclear power, but in NZ anti-nuclear policy was a very galvanising touchpoint for the environmental and anti-war movements, so there's a bit more context there. Nuclear-free and the Springbok protests are referenced constantly as progressive wins.

The NZ anti-nuclear movement was mostly (but not completely) seen as a success against the US forcing their nuclear armed warships upon us (sailing into our harbours) during the cold war, and as a result making us a potential target.

In the end one of the right wing party's lawmakers voted with the left wing party, enough to pass a law, the right wing party used this as an excuse to dissolve parliament and call a national election which they resoundingly lost (the reasons this happened had more to do with the right wing party lying about the state of the economy and getting caught - but a mandate's a mandate) - we don't get nuclear weapons sailing into our country any more

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