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Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

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Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#201

Uber is the ubiquitous word for modern transport between 1 to 40kms in the western world. Ubering is a verb. Thats a whole lot of mindshare and Uber is a whole lot better than a taxi. Future demand for taxis will go up. Uber is the verb for the software layer in the middle of getting from a to b. Nobody can innovate enough in the space to displace Uber’s brand lead. Running a server is cheaper than paying a dispatche…

Hoovering is a verb, it didn't help them. Edit: Xeroxing.

Hoovering and is a verb in the US from technically advanced hardware businesses while ubering is a verb globally from a taxi software company.

So uber doesn’t have

Depreciating factories, Competing manufacturers, Supply chains Software R&D

And has expertise in establishing brand prescence and marketshare.

Uber = better taxi and demand for taxis will increase in future with or without driverless cars.

How easy is it for car manufacturers or software companies to build and displace what Uber has in operation in the transition to driverless cars? I think it’s difficult.

Uber seems to have deep experience how this market will play out and they are actually spending the money on r&d to see how it will play out and should be able to position the Uber brand which everyone in the Western world associates with taxi to clip the ticket on an increasing number of taxi rides in the future.

Google and Apple are possibly the biggest threats but they have a whole lot of anti-trust, privacy and motivation issues to overcome. Possibly Tesla has a automotive technology edge but unlikely and Tesla is constrained by its capital intensive business model.

From a net cash flow perspective, clipping tickets on taxi rides seems a profitable growth business while R&D into driverless car tech is a bottomless well but if your the largest taxi ticketer in the world it’s probably good to be at the edge of this field of knowledge.

At $26.00 a share uber needs to clip $1.00 per ride on 2.4 billion trips to get 12* earnings.

It did 10 billion rides/deliveries in 2018 and has 12 billion cash on hand presently.

It is a software business and owns the copyright to it’s software stack so should have lower operating costs than it’s smaller competitors licensing bits and pieces of their stack plus economies of scale plus one focus on getting people and things from a to b as easily as possible.

I hope it goes lower. At 26.00 - 7.00 for the cash on hand you are paying 19.00 for a verb that sells 6 tickets per day at $1.00 profit per ticket equals a 30% return on the core business which is being invested into R&D to secure brand prescence and network effects in emerging delivery technology.

That R&D can stop today and Uber will continue to print and clip the ticket for 10 billion rides per year now and for the forseeable future.

So it’s just a question of whether the current manager is a genius at deploying capital into the driverless r&d space and can get dominant market share of air taxi’s and delivery because the core of Uber (10 billion tickets per year) is a fantastic business and that definitely didn’t happen by accident and with antitrust regulations the uber app should become more profitable and dominant.

I hope it goes lower.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#202
post #139

A quick reminder to everyone that buying all time lows on a stock is one of the worst equity strategies possible (statistically). Go ahead and run a backtest. On the flip side, buying stocks at all time highs, while counter intuitive, is one of the best equity strategies available (with trailing stops). Buying Uber stock here is borderline moronic until the trend turns around.

I'm curious, anywhere where I could read more about the high/low statistics?

For sure. Here are some links:

https://www.cis.upenn.edu/~mkearns/finread/trend.pdf

https://www.bauer.uh.edu/TGeorge/papers/gh4-paper.pdf

https://mebfaber.com/2007/05/30/buying-the-highs-vs-buying-t...

https://allocatesmartly.com/buying-global-stocks-at-all-time...

https://mebfaber.com/2019/11/04/is-buying-stocks-at-an-all-t...

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#203
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely with a lock up date it was pretty predictable that volume would be some large multiple of it's usual.

Sure. But what multiple do you expect? If you expected 2x or 3x the volume, you were proven wrong in the 1st hour. Between 9am EST to 10am EST, over 40-million UBER shares traded, representing ~400% of the average daily volume in just 1-hour.

But getting it exactly right isn't the point, is it? You were asking how many should you short, if you think the market hasn't priced the lock out in ,the answer doesn't have to be optimal, it's just more than the usual volume.

What am I missing? For sure you couldn't know it would be 95 mil, but is 20 really that speculative?

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#204

How much wealth was redistributed upwards? Who benefited from Uber other than the founders and maybe 1% of the entire business? I find it highly unethical for such a business to be able to ignore so many laws most of which protect the have nots to build a system that moves most of the profits to the haves. Then dump the broken business to IPO for fools to buy up and loose as well.

Taxi and delivery customers benefited. That’s why there were 10 billion uber tickets sold in 2018.

Maybe siting in a taxi shouldn’t be a $100,000 a year job.

The only benefit I see between a uber driver and a licensed taxi driver is that the uber is exponentially easier to heil.

So much better than phoning some droll dispatcher for a slower service.

Licensed taxi operators used to do exactly same thing with a slower more expensive service.

If they were better Uber wouldn’t have sold 10 billion tickets in 2018.

Uber adjusts Taxi fares to supply of drivers and demand. Licensed taxi drivers restricted supply to charge the more for a worse service.

Uber can do this because they are a now a verb. Customers love Ubering and that’s all that matters.

If legislation changes to increase driver pay Uber will still have network, cost and brand advantages over it’s competitors in the growing taxi market.

Ignoring laws broke taxi cartels globally. I think that is forgiveable.

And they aren’t forcing anyone to drive Uber but uber does provide an low barrier autonomous employment option that never existed to millions of people. The fact this works in their favour is irrelevant because customers love Uber.

It’s not like there’s a training opportunity cost to driving uber. You use a car you have and know how to drive anyway and you drive it in your spare time or on a full time basis to deliver people or things. The cost to secure this employment is $30 for a police record check. Don’t even need to write a cover letter.

They mightn’t be the straightest company in the world but neither are taxi cartels so they had to go to the edge of the line to displace them for the greater good.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#205

How much wealth was redistributed upwards? Who benefited from Uber other than the founders and maybe 1% of the entire business? I find it highly unethical for such a business to be able to ignore so many laws most of which protect the have nots to build a system that moves most of the profits to the haves. Then dump the broken business to IPO for fools to buy up and loose as well.

Taxi and delivery customers benefited. That’s why there were 10 billion uber tickets sold in 2018. Maybe siting in a taxi shouldn’t be a $100,000 a year job. The only benefit I see between a uber driver and a licensed taxi driver is that the uber is exponentially easier to heil. So much better than phoning some droll dispatcher for a slower service. Licensed taxi operators used to do exactly same thing with a slower…

> The only benefit I see between a uber driver and a licensed taxi driver is that the uber is exponentially easier to heil.

You mean "hail", right? Right?

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#206
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core business is very profitable. Loss-making is happening in their less mature product categories and expansion efforts.

I was under the impression that they were still subsidizing rides. Are they actually making a profit?

Your impression is wrong. The core rides business is very profitable.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#207
post #42
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core business is very profitable. Loss-making is happening in their less mature product categories and expansion efforts.

Source?

https://investor.uber.com/news-events/news/press-release-det...

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#208
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re correct. Not sure why you were being downvoted.

Because (s)he is not correct. "Adjusted EBITDA" =/= EBITDA. Uber rides are only profitable if you use their bullshit non-GAAP numbers. If you do the accounting in the proper way they are not profitable.

Uber's mature Rides businessee are very profitable. Sorry.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxi and delivery customers benefited. That’s why there were 10 billion uber tickets sold in 2018. Maybe siting in a taxi shouldn’t be a $100,000 a year job. The only benefit I see between a uber driver and a licensed taxi driver is that the uber is exponentially easier to heil. So much better than phoning some droll dispatcher for a slower service. Licensed taxi operators used to do exactly same thing with a slower…

> The only benefit I see between a uber driver and a licensed taxi driver is that the uber is exponentially easier to heil. You mean "hail", right? Right?

Yes it does accidentally fuhrer my argument though. People have forgotten how to spell hail.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#210
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reads like the usual Uber criticism and doesn't touch on the lockup. The market knew the lockup was ending, so it should have been priced in. Dropping when the lockup ends should mean that markets underestimated how many insiders wanted to cash out, and employee sentiment is worse than market sentiment.

I dunno, but I wouldn't read too much about employee sentiment into this. Say you have $150k in savings and $x million in Uber stock. Any competent financial advisor is going to get you to diversify out of Uber. You'll miss upside, but prevent that $x million from potentially going to zero based on the actions of just one company. Also... goodbye sf housing market :(

> Any competent financial advisor is going to get you to diversify out of Uber

Agreed, but they seem to have no problem suggesting putting 50% of your net worth in a home.

Having been though a company going public, while that advice is correct, the endowment effect is a real thing, and it's shocking how long people hold on.

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