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Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

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Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#51

Post by deweller »

hodder wrote: post #35
ProAm wrote: post #15

Is anyone really surprised? Years before the IPO we knew they were not profitable in the least. We knew VC cash was subsidizing rides. We knew that their future was purely dependent on a self-driving car fleet where they could ditch drivers (and their pay) completely. This on top of a horrible culture with pretty lousy ethics and morality. This is how this was supposed to play out and everyone here (on HN) knew that.…

Sure, but the same could be said of Tesla. Horrible employer, constant exec churn, unbelievable cash burn, what appears to be structural losses.... But Tesla still has a 56B mcap today. Uber is 46B. These VC/equity issue cash furnaces can go on longer than most can fathom if a subset of investors believe in the long term vision.

Tesla has arguably a more clear path to a profitable future. Uber's path to profitability is arguably much more speculative and dependent on risky technology advances.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#52

Post by throwaway_law »

tempsy wrote: post #32
ProAm wrote: post #15

Is anyone really surprised? Years before the IPO we knew they were not profitable in the least. We knew VC cash was subsidizing rides. We knew that their future was purely dependent on a self-driving car fleet where they could ditch drivers (and their pay) completely. This on top of a horrible culture with pretty lousy ethics and morality. This is how this was supposed to play out and everyone here (on HN) knew that.…

It's still a 45B company...still the largest and most successful company to come out of SF this decade.

>still the largest and most successful company to come out of SF this decade.

That's a lot less reflective of UBER and more reflective of the type of startups SV is trying to take public. Look at any other SV Unicorn that IPO'd...take Twitter that IPO'd in 2013, it turned a profit one year since going public.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#53

Post by dreamcompiler »

dangxiaopin wrote: post #4

I am long on Uber: taxis are dead, it will not go anywhere. The only problem is that the board made a strategic mistake that felt good short term. They tried to retain users by pushing the founder out, and hiring a diversity CEO. This failed long term as any populist board move does. But they still have a chance to have their NeXT moment and bring Travis back.

They don't need Travis. They need an adult in charge who will shed about 80% of their payroll. Managing a cloud-based mobile logistics service for taxis shouldn't require 22,000 people.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#54

Post by ProAm »

vkou wrote: post #45
ProAm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not successful though. WeWork is still valued at 47B technically speaking today. They are a company that only loses money, has a horrid culture and does some morally reprehensible things. Their true value is their logistics software. If they would lease/sell that to other industries they would be rich beyond belief.

What morally reprehensible things are done by WeWork?

I was referring to Uber

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#55

Post by tempsy »

throwaway_law wrote: post #52
tempsy wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still a 45B company...still the largest and most successful company to come out of SF this decade.

>still the largest and most successful company to come out of SF this decade. That's a lot less reflective of UBER and more reflective of the type of startups SV is trying to take public. Look at any other SV Unicorn that IPO'd...take Twitter that IPO'd in 2013, it turned a profit one year since going public.

I'm using market cap as a proxy for success not profit...

Twitter isn't really a shining example of success either - their share price has been sideways for 6 years.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#56

Post by deweller »

pbreit wrote: post #23
xfour wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's their cash on hand position, I believe I saw that there's 13B, after adding 8B in the IPO, that seems like a ton of cash on hand for a business that isn't showing any signs of turning of profit. Could they not just without any further cash infusion continue to lose similar amounts for the next three years and be cash solvent. Does that then not give a big incentive to figure out how to become profitable in the…

The core business is very profitable. Loss-making is happening in their less mature product categories and expansion efforts.

I was under the impression that they were still subsidizing rides. Are they actually making a profit?

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#58

Post by askl56 »

pbreit wrote: post #23
xfour wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's their cash on hand position, I believe I saw that there's 13B, after adding 8B in the IPO, that seems like a ton of cash on hand for a business that isn't showing any signs of turning of profit. Could they not just without any further cash infusion continue to lose similar amounts for the next three years and be cash solvent. Does that then not give a big incentive to figure out how to become profitable in the…

The core business is very profitable. Loss-making is happening in their less mature product categories and expansion efforts.

It's profitable through Uber's own non GAAP numbers, the GAAP numbers are still unprofitable.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#59

Post by dd36 »

hodder wrote: post #35
ProAm wrote: post #15

Is anyone really surprised? Years before the IPO we knew they were not profitable in the least. We knew VC cash was subsidizing rides. We knew that their future was purely dependent on a self-driving car fleet where they could ditch drivers (and their pay) completely. This on top of a horrible culture with pretty lousy ethics and morality. This is how this was supposed to play out and everyone here (on HN) knew that.…

Sure, but the same could be said of Tesla. Horrible employer, constant exec churn, unbelievable cash burn, what appears to be structural losses.... But Tesla still has a 56B mcap today. Uber is 46B. These VC/equity issue cash furnaces can go on longer than most can fathom if a subset of investors believe in the long term vision.

Tesla is building a product. Automated dispatch is not protectable.

Re: Uber Sinks to New Record Low as IPO Share Lockup Expires

#60

Post by JohnFen »

tempsy wrote: post #32
ProAm wrote: post #15

Is anyone really surprised? Years before the IPO we knew they were not profitable in the least. We knew VC cash was subsidizing rides. We knew that their future was purely dependent on a self-driving car fleet where they could ditch drivers (and their pay) completely. This on top of a horrible culture with pretty lousy ethics and morality. This is how this was supposed to play out and everyone here (on HN) knew that.…

It's still a 45B company...still the largest and most successful company to come out of SF this decade.

If Uber counts as a successful company by SV standards, that's a pretty strong condemnation of SV standards.
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