German government expands subsidies for electric cars • Hacker News Board

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#71

Post by gibolt » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:02 PM UTC

thinkcontext wrote: post #41

dillz wrote: post #22

Blatant and obvious lobbying by the extremely powerful German car industry. The subsidy includes premium brand plug-in hybrids such as BMW 330e and Mercedes C class - i.e. typical company cars that will very rarely use the electric engine. As gibolt mentioned, it also helps VW selling their new models. Why not subsidize public transport instead? Why has the German government been unable to make (useful) climate prote…

> typical company cars that will very rarely use the electric engine This is backwards, plugin hybrids rarely use their gas engines. BMW 330e 2020 has a 20 mile electric only range (about the same as Prius Prime). Average German car trip distance is 11 miles [0] Even if the trip is longer than 20 miles, it will only use the gas after the electric runs out. [0] Large PDF, average car trip distance on page 50 https://s…

It should be that way, in a perfect world. I believe there was a study/survey in the UK. Business owners take the extra subsidies to get a cheaper fleet. They found that only a tiny portion had even unwrapped the charging cables, treating them just like an ICE vehicle.

Can't seem to find the link :/

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#72

Post by Tepix » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:03 PM UTC

benjaminsuch wrote: post #4

dna_polymerase wrote: post #2

> The German government and car industry have agreed to increase joint subsidies for the purchase of electric cars on the same day automobile giant Volkswagen began production of a new all-electric vehicle. The way that company fucks Germany over and over is truly remarkable. Paid no penalties for the whole Dieselgate in Germany, now after all that they let the taxpayer fund their infrastructure. I bet their solution…

What do you mean by "fucks over"? People want to reduce CO2, they want a greener Germany, a greener world and more importantly reach the climate agreement. Subsidizing electric cars is one step towards it.

A better way is to put a big tax on CO2 making driving ICE cars less attractive. They can then use the money from this tax to build bike paths and give tax breaks for electric vehicles. Preferably bicycles and light vehicles which use less resources to produce and operate.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#73

Post by Tepix » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

aszantu wrote: post #3

:( They give u 4k on a 32k car, but they wont give it to a 4k car from china

If the chinese car meets the european standards (crash test etc) you will get the subsidy.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#74

Post by pgeorgi » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #11

benjaminsuch wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by "fucks over"? People want to reduce CO2, they want a greener Germany, a greener world and more importantly reach the climate agreement. Subsidizing electric cars is one step towards it.

Yes, but that could have been done in this form earlier, and not suspiciously close to VW's EVs' release date.

Since half of the money come from automotive, they were involved in making that arrangement, too. It's quite possible that some VW managers delayed the process for a few weeks to get it all lined up.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#75

Post by Tepix » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:06 PM UTC

lumberjack wrote: post #18

wil421 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the Chinese EV golf carts I mean cars allowed in Germany? I thought their safety requirements were pretty tight. I can’t imagine some of them making it on the autobahn.

Cannot be more of a death trap than a Renault Twizzy which I see quite often around the city, or any motorcycle for that matter. As long as they don't market it as a normal car, I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed.

A Twizy is not a car legally. It's a L7e Leichtkraftfahrzeug which means it doesn't have to meet safety standards.

It is possible to make a safe lightweight car. DLR is proving it with their research.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#76

Post by Tushon » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:08 PM UTC

Vysero wrote: post #52

windsurfer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask why you wouldn't be able to charge it at home? It is my understanding that most people simply charge their electric cars overnight, much like their phones.

Perhaps I am in the minority but my home is an apartment complex so I park in the parking lot. There are no chargers in the parking lot. Either way (I could be wrong) I don't think you can just plug it into a 120V outlet to get a charge.

I think that there will be a shift in the provided capabilities of places like apartments in the near-ish future that will address this problem. More people will own electric cars, and either charge them at parking garages at work, and their homes/apartments will be retro-fitted. Probably won't be free, but the removed gas cost should well offset it on an individual level.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#77

Post by close04 » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:11 PM UTC

hannasanarion wrote: post #59

vkou wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My apartment building does not have, and by my best guess, will never have car chargers in its parking garage. And I'm lucky enough to have a parking garage. At least ~70% of the people living in my area park on the street, where there are... Also no chargers.

Have you considered asking them if they would install one? They aren't that expensive, only about $1000 bucks, and I think there are some federal subsidies. With a service like Chargepoint, there is no cost to the landlord at all. They have a brochure you can print out on their website. Failing that you can park near a regular 120v outlet and use level 1 charging, which fills up most cars in about 8 hours.

> a regular 120v outlet and use level 1 charging, which fills up most cars in about 8 hours

A regular 120V outlet is 15A at best (usually 12A). That's barely enough to charge a PHEV in 8h, let alone a BEV. Practical example [0]:

> connected to a 240V outlet, the onboard 7.7kW charger should take the battery from 0-100% SoC in 2 hours 25 min. (A 120V charge will take a bit longer at just over 16.5 hours.)

[0] https://arstechnica.com/cars/2019/10/on-the-road-with-audis-...

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#78

Post by notJim » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:12 PM UTC

24gttghh wrote: post #49

Vysero wrote: post #35

I would love to be able to buy an electric car here in Montana (US) but how would I charge it? Either way I couldn't afford it. Even at a conservative estimate of 20k that's still too much considering I can go out and buy a used car that gets 20mpg for 5k and keep it for the next 100k miles. I realize this is a bit off topic but I get so bitter when I heard about other countries converting to electric. I just wish so…

No offense, but what hypothetical car are you buying for $5K that will last another 100K miles? You can get used Nissan Leaf's in the price-range you're wanting. In Spokane tho I guess... https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?dealerTy... Or used Prius's in Missoula: https://www.missoulanissan.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=p... edit: I am genuinely curious about the $5K car good for 100K miles.

I bought a 2007 Rav4 for around $5k in 2017. Had 130k miles on it. Now 2 years later it's at around 210k and still no serious issues. I doubt it's gonna have much trouble going another 20k. I would imagine any Toyota or Honda would be similar, and probably lots of other cars too.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#79

Post by windsurfer » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

Vysero wrote: post #52

windsurfer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask why you wouldn't be able to charge it at home? It is my understanding that most people simply charge their electric cars overnight, much like their phones.

Perhaps I am in the minority but my home is an apartment complex so I park in the parking lot. There are no chargers in the parking lot. Either way (I could be wrong) I don't think you can just plug it into a 120V outlet to get a charge.

You can top up using a 120v wall outlet. People using Tesla cars report around 40-50 km for an 8 hour charge.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#80

Post by dawnerd » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:18 PM UTC

Vysero wrote: post #52

windsurfer wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask why you wouldn't be able to charge it at home? It is my understanding that most people simply charge their electric cars overnight, much like their phones.

Perhaps I am in the minority but my home is an apartment complex so I park in the parking lot. There are no chargers in the parking lot. Either way (I could be wrong) I don't think you can just plug it into a 120V outlet to get a charge.

I use my 120v outlet in my garage and it keeps the battery charged up enough - granted I'm not maxing out the range every day either. Takes about 13 hours to charge from half way.