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German government expands subsidies for electric cars

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Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#41

Post by thinkcontext »

dillz wrote: post #22

Blatant and obvious lobbying by the extremely powerful German car industry. The subsidy includes premium brand plug-in hybrids such as BMW 330e and Mercedes C class - i.e. typical company cars that will very rarely use the electric engine. As gibolt mentioned, it also helps VW selling their new models. Why not subsidize public transport instead? Why has the German government been unable to make (useful) climate prote…

> typical company cars that will very rarely use the electric engine

This is backwards, plugin hybrids rarely use their gas engines. BMW 330e 2020 has a 20 mile electric only range (about the same as Prius Prime). Average German car trip distance is 11 miles [0] Even if the trip is longer than 20 miles, it will only use the gas after the electric runs out.

[0] Large PDF, average car trip distance on page 50 https://setis.ec.europa.eu/system/files/Driving_and_parking_...

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#42

Post by UserIsUnused »

benjaminsuch wrote: post #4
dna_polymerase wrote: post #2

> The German government and car industry have agreed to increase joint subsidies for the purchase of electric cars on the same day automobile giant Volkswagen began production of a new all-electric vehicle. The way that company fucks Germany over and over is truly remarkable. Paid no penalties for the whole Dieselgate in Germany, now after all that they let the taxpayer fund their infrastructure. I bet their solution…

What do you mean by "fucks over"? People want to reduce CO2, they want a greener Germany, a greener world and more importantly reach the climate agreement. Subsidizing electric cars is one step towards it.

The money put in subsidizing electric vehicles is more well spend in public transportation. An 30 electric cars are not as green as a single bus.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#43

Post by lm28469 »

mcny wrote: post #17
Jamwinner wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That 4k chineese car is more of a burden than a gift. For once, I agree with the government subsidies.

I don't know anything about Germany but back in New York (the city), anything that has mass and occupies space is a burden. The rent is high and space is tight. I didn't even own a desktop computer because I couldn't justify the space a dedicated computer space takes. Thus, given the golf carts can't drive everywhere, you pretty much need a second car so I kind of agree with you. That being said, wasn't there some no…

You're assuming the majority of people are rational. Cars are basically a religion in germany (with beer and football). You can compare that to the 2nd amendment in the US.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#44

Post by thinkcontext »

close04 wrote: post #34
thinkcontext wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla Model 3 has a base price of 44.5K EUR. https://cleantechnica.com/2019/04/13/tesla-model-3-vs-bmw-3-...

Why link to some 3rd party site when you can link to the source of truth, the Tesla site [0] (currently at 44.390€)? https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/model3/design

Because it took me through a landing page in German.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#45

Post by heyYouD »

gibolt wrote: post #36
fluffything wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only VW, any company can opt-in to the subsidies: the state pays half and the company the other half. What's funny is how the requirement of a <= 60k EUR car price means that those buying a Tesla won't get any subsidies. It's kind of understandable though: in Germany most cars are sold in the 10-20k EUR range, so it would be political suicide to create a subsidy to pay for what most citizens consider a luxury. Su…

Tesla's lower-end Model 3s fall in that range. Tesla will be announcing their European Gigafactory soon (most likely in Germany), so it is in Germany's best interest to make Teslas more attainable as well. It will increase local jerbs and decrease carbon emissions.

The most likely placement of the factory is actually in Poland, just east of Germany. It's a great place to have factories, right next door to Germany, and the wider Europe. I'd say Poland is the main candidate for where they'll place anything. Close enough and so much cheaper.

Not involved with any of this! Poland stronk. We love Poland in any case.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#46

Post by vkou »

windsurfer wrote: post #37
Vysero wrote: post #35

I would love to be able to buy an electric car here in Montana (US) but how would I charge it? Either way I couldn't afford it. Even at a conservative estimate of 20k that's still too much considering I can go out and buy a used car that gets 20mpg for 5k and keep it for the next 100k miles. I realize this is a bit off topic but I get so bitter when I heard about other countries converting to electric. I just wish so…

May I ask why you wouldn't be able to charge it at home? It is my understanding that most people simply charge their electric cars overnight, much like their phones.

My apartment building does not have, and by my best guess, will never have car chargers in its parking garage.

And I'm lucky enough to have a parking garage. At least ~70% of the people living in my area park on the street, where there are... Also no chargers.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#47

Post by NullPrefix »

lumberjack wrote: post #18
wil421 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are the Chinese EV golf carts I mean cars allowed in Germany? I thought their safety requirements were pretty tight. I can’t imagine some of them making it on the autobahn.

Cannot be more of a death trap than a Renault Twizzy which I see quite often around the city, or any motorcycle for that matter. As long as they don't market it as a normal car, I don't see why it shouldn't be allowed.

>more of a death trap than a Renault Twizzy

Are you referring to it as a death trap based on it's crash test performance or solely on the looks?

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#48

Post by lispm »

cbmuser wrote: post #23
gibolt wrote: post #15

It is pretty blatant that they are increasing it by 50% to support Volkswagen's conversion to electric. Most of the other comments seem quite negative. It is protectionism, but it applies to most electric cars and is a step in the right direction. It is late and selfish, but better than the alternative.

Volkswagen isn't going to convert to electric anytime soon. Electric cars only make 1% of the annual car registrations in Germany and 0.18% of the total number of cars registered. In fact, Volkswagen is planning a new factory for cars with combustion engines in Turkey. It's just currently put on hold due to the conflict at the Syrian border.

Volkswagen has transformed a factory already and is starting mass production with 100000 cars for next year. From 2021 on Zwickau will produce electric cars only. Factories in Emden and Hannover will follow in 2022.

https://www.freiepresse.de/nachrichten/sachsen/volkswagen-be...

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#49

Post by 24gttghh »

Vysero wrote: post #35

I would love to be able to buy an electric car here in Montana (US) but how would I charge it? Either way I couldn't afford it. Even at a conservative estimate of 20k that's still too much considering I can go out and buy a used car that gets 20mpg for 5k and keep it for the next 100k miles. I realize this is a bit off topic but I get so bitter when I heard about other countries converting to electric. I just wish so…

No offense, but what hypothetical car are you buying for $5K that will last another 100K miles?

You can get used Nissan Leaf's in the price-range you're wanting. In Spokane tho I guess...

https://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchresults.action/?dealerTy...

Or used Prius's in Missoula:

https://www.missoulanissan.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=p...

edit: I am genuinely curious about the $5K car good for 100K miles.

Re: German government expands subsidies for electric cars

#50

Post by close04 »

thinkcontext wrote: post #44
close04 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why link to some 3rd party site when you can link to the source of truth, the Tesla site [0] (currently at 44.390€)? https://www.tesla.com/de_DE/model3/design

Because it took me through a landing page in German.

I'd honestly pick a site that gives me the correct figure at any time after potentially having to click through a German landing page (which I'm not getting to be honest and it's the first time I visit from this browser and machine) [0] than one I can understand fully but gives me an outdated (potentially wrong) number.

It's not out of the question that Tesla drops the price to 39.999E without the fancy AP hardware so people take full advantage of the subsidy.

[0] https://imgur.com/g8fXoin

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