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U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#511

Post by ekianjo »

nickserv wrote: post #331
ekianjo wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students That's how you end up with "Education" being the first cost element of the French budget (about 72 billions EUR per year) despite pretty poor academic results (that can be easily observed in the ever-decreasing level of the national exams). When government manages everything in one field, that field becomes mismanaged (trains: SNCF alway…

I see your point and it can be true, in particular when the state is officially controlled by a single party, and/or in societies with systematic corruption. And while your examples are also true, I would argue that it's actually normal for rail and post to be in the red. This is because their primary purpose is not to generate revenue for the state, but to provide a service to taxpayers. For example, unprofitable tr…

For train service the counter example is easy to find. Japan where all trains and metros are private and service is infinitely better than in France. The shinkansen makes the TGV look absolutely ridiculous.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#512

Post by sbmthakur »

jefflinwood wrote: post #366
jhallenworld wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The modern versions are usually gender studies, communications, or English.. As an engineer, it's difficult to accept any non-engineering degree as legitimate :-) So my nephew is getting his degree in "expeditionary studies": https://www.plattsburgh.edu/programs/expeditionary-studies-m... I'm jealous..

I haven't got any idea if that degree will lead to a worthwhile career for your nephew, but that looks like a lot more fun than the four years I spent getting an engineering degree I don't use :)

There is a Career Opportunities section on the same page.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#513

Post by skinnymuch »

eindiran wrote: post #463
popularwarfare wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory. Do you have evidence that is what is actually happening?

If your request for evidence is about the claim that most Uchicago students receive aid: https://news.uchicago.edu/story/financial-aid-budget-forecas... If its about the claim that this is an example of price discrimination: that is an opinion I formed while I was at the University and spoke with some folks in the economics department about it. There is a class offered in econ about the economics of education, and th…

They are mixing financial support/debt and grants it seems in the writing. Getting loans isn’t the same as getting money you don’t have to pay back.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#514

Post by skinnymuch »

xzel wrote: post #477
rhino369 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Student debt isn't likely to cause a 2008 crisis since the vast majority of it is held by (or backed by) the government.

So I actually have a question wrt to the fact the government backs most tuition loans: what is really the difference if the US starts a forgiveness program or everyone defaults and the government pays back the lenders? Aren't the tax payers paying something similar both ways?

Isn’t defaulting on student loans and not having the money garnished incredibly hard? If so, it wouldn’t be possible for more than a small fraction to do it.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#515

Post by fortran77 »

jetpks wrote: post #237
asdfman123 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be angry because I lived in the cheapest apartment I could and biked as much as I could until I paid everything off. Had I been less responsible, I would get more money under debt forgiveness. The incentives are inverted. I'm all for wealth redistribution but messing with incentives is shown over and over again to be a bad idea. Also, my perspective as the kind of frugal guy that everyone else calls cheap is…

Because you suffered, everyone in perpetuity must also suffer?

I'm against loan forgiveness. I went to an inexpensive local college, took the public bus to class, lived with my parents (I realize I was "privileged" enough to be able to do this), worked 25 hours/week while going to school, and took as many classes as possible at a low-cost community college that could be applied for credit to my 4-year degree.

I graduated with no debt.

I don't think others should also suffer. That's why, I want the government to stop backing student loans, and make new non-government loans like any other loan, including bk discharge.

Tuitions would drop rapidly, and nobody "in perpetuity" will have to suffer.

Most people who are against forgiveness are also against continuing to write new loans!

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#516

Post by lonelappde »

war1025 wrote: post #239
codedokode wrote: post #166

The prices in USA look exorbitant. If a worker works full year for minimum wage, they earn $7.25 * 8 * 253 = $14674. Such worker will have to work for 6 years and 9 months to pay tuition costs for 1 year, if we assume that they don't have to pay taxes, buy food, visit a doctor and pay the rent. A house may cost several hundred thousands dollars or higher. If that worker has paid for a university, no way they will be…

Private school tuition is the same as healthcare in the US. Everything has an enormous sticker price for anyone who asks, but no one is expected to actually pay that amount. And if you do pay that amount, it's just because you're a sucker who didn't get in on the fact that it's just a made up number. Rich kids may pay that amount, but it probably gets flipped around into some tax-advantaged "donation" that also helps…

It's not exactly the same. Tuition had a standard process for showing the school your financials so they can set a price. It sounds like open-ended pickpocketing but it's a competitive market with a clear coordinated timeline for the offer process, so you can choose the school with the best price for offering.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#517

Post by smileysteve »

marrone12 wrote: post #491
smileysteve wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You just made college out of reach for everyone that isn't already wealthy Immediately yes, fortunately, there is a supply and demand curve, so if you cut the demand for a bunch of colleges that already exist; then the price should find a new equilibrium. Of course, as is the science of economics, time and outside influences matter.

So what do you say to all the people for who college will be out of reach while the market "equalizes"?

The same thing we're telling financially concerned people now; public colleges, community colleges, trade schools.

Fortunately, in a low unemployment world, also means that hiring should be very elastic to this change.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#518

Post by lonelappde »

closeparen wrote: post #490
ilamont wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen private schools promoting such aid, but for most there is no clarity on A) whether your student will qualify and B) what the amount will be over the 4-year period. I've heard from friends with students already in college that there are often ad hoc negotiations between parents and financial aid offices about the size of the discount, which is frustrating, unfair, and open to abuse.

Financial aid offices typically offer a lightweight calculator you can run when shopping, and a more intense application you can run in parallel with your application for admission. You get a formal aid offer with your acceptance before you have to commit.

Formal 1 yr offer, not 4 yr offer, so be careful. It's a bit of a trick, that part.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#519

Post by lonelappde »

ttcbj wrote: post #58

For those interested in background on this, Paul Tough's 'The Years that Matter Most'[1] has a lot of really interesting, surprising facts about college admissions. Many of the ideas touched on in the comments here so far are covered in much more detail in that book. One interesting fact is that although there is a lot of publicity from colleges about reaching out to lower income students, there are massive incentive…

People who pay "full price" are paying extra for the poor students. Schools need both.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#520

Post by paulddraper »

angry_octet wrote: post #505
paulddraper wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> very few employers will pay for you to train/gain experience Yes and no. Most HVAC shops will pay for technician's training. Most dev shops pay for technical conferences. Most managers have access to management seminars and training. Expecting an employers to pay tens of thousands of dollars seems weird, but many employers do pay on a smaller scale for skills training. > degrees are used as proxies instead Though c…

The degree you get certainly matters for graduate admissions though. For example, at both MacGill and U of Montreal they don't take any account of industry experience when you are applying for grad school. And they assume grade inflation, so unless you scored A average you can give up.

That's true. It's a relatively small set of jobs that require a medical, law, or phd degree.
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