U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year • Hacker News Board

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#471

Post by aianus » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:38 AM UTC

jklein11 wrote: post #422

aianus wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We probably should. I bet it's easier to teach a STEM grad how to teach (in a professional training program after college) than to teach a professional 'teacher' how to do math.

What are you basing that on? My sister is a 3rd-grade teacher and I'm not sure I would be equipped to handle 30 children without lots of training. Teaching someone how to teach 3rd-grade math is not that difficult. Teaching someone to start building positive learning habits with 8-9-year-olds sounds incredibly complicated. I might be reading into your post too much but it seems like you think STEM grads are superior…

You may be right about elementary school teachers, I'm thinking more about high school STEM teachers specifically. Although the grade school teachers in my city seem to struggle even with fractions [0].

Only one of my high school math teachers seemed to have any idea what math was about (not just regurgitating formulas, but deriving them and proving them from a set of axioms and only then using those formulas to solve free-form real-world problems).

My High School CS teacher was a geography teacher who just read one chapter ahead in the CS textbook and had no idea what he was talking about.

Being good at teaching seems kind of useless when you don't know anything to teach.

[0] https://www.thestar.com/yourtoronto/education/2016/05/13/for...

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Post by lazypenguin » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:39 AM UTC

wtvanhest wrote: post #467

Bjartr wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't a professor make 150k? I mean, from a societal point of view.

If that is what they are earning without burdening thousands of students with unsustainable debt over their careers than I'd argue nothing is wrong with it. For example if the salary is 100% from NIH grants and the prof makes 500k, more power to them. If the prof makes 100k and all their salary is funded by student loans, then they should decide whether their livelihood is worth the externalities they are creating. I…

150k/year. Let’s assume the professor teaches 4 units per semester and maybe 2 in the summer (or research or some equivalent). Comes out to 15k/unit. Let’s say 15 students per unit just to represent smaller classes comes to $1k/unit/student/year. Each unit is like 3hrs/week for 12 weeks on average. So comes out to something like $28/hr. Doesn’t seem unreasonable to me.

Average course load for a student is like 6 units a semester so using the back-of-the napkin math above it should cost roughly $6k/per semester for students to have a full course load of $150k professors. $12k/year + other expenses is a far cry away from $100k that is being charged.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#473

Post by setpatchaddress » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:43 AM UTC

gnicholas wrote: post #457

Finnucane wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work at one local university, and my wife works at another. One thing we've definitely noticed (and this is a widespread problem) is that the administration is becoming more top-heavy. There are cutbacks in faculty, support, and teaching staff, more reliance on adjuncts (academic temps, basically), and so on, while central administration grows. Expensive new buildings contribute, but less than people suppose. But t…

An AEI report on 'administrative bloat' in higher education: https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/diversity-and-other-administr...

AEI is a hard-rightish conservative think tank. I’d be wary of trusting anything they publish about money and schools.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#474

Post by setpatchaddress » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:44 AM UTC

asdfman123 wrote: post #178

maxerickson wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends a lot on how you define "middle class" and "screwed". For example: https://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/how/index.html https://college.harvard.edu/guides/financial-aid-fact-sheet

I went to Stanford. My mom did part time office work and my dad was the director of planning for a local city government. It was very affordable for us. Everyone thinks they're in the middle class.

When?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Post by Gunax » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:47 AM UTC

jetpks wrote: post #237

asdfman123 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be angry because I lived in the cheapest apartment I could and biked as much as I could until I paid everything off. Had I been less responsible, I would get more money under debt forgiveness. The incentives are inverted. I'm all for wealth redistribution but messing with incentives is shown over and over again to be a bad idea. Also, my perspective as the kind of frugal guy that everyone else calls cheap is…

Because you suffered, everyone in perpetuity must also suffer?

Someone is suffering. It's either the taxpayer or the receiver of the education.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#476

Post by joenot443 » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:48 AM UTC

cycrutchfield wrote: post #461

tenpies wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One thing I find crazy is the very same institutions that are generally very left leaning Why? Being Left leaning is easiest when it's not your money. Yes! Raise our tuition! More levies! Mommy and daddy will pick up the tab. If not the government-backed loans will take care of it and I just won't pay for it. After all, those capitalist boomer tax payers should subsidize my virtuous leftist existence. It's just lik…

Good lord, the level of discourse on this site has absolutely plummeted. We're in /r/conservative territory now.

> Please don't submit comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#477

Post by xzel » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:48 AM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #116

misiti3780 wrote: post #71

As a US citizen, I see the US debt bomb ending it two different ways 1. Sanders/Warren get elected and somehow forgive 1.5 trillion in student loans and make education free going forward. 2. 2008 level crisis with (2) is the more probable I think universities tuition is way too expensive in our country, but I'm against (1) currently because I don't think retroactively forgiving debt is a good policy. The students too…

Student debt isn't likely to cause a 2008 crisis since the vast majority of it is held by (or backed by) the government.

So I actually have a question wrt to the fact the government backs most tuition loans: what is really the difference if the US starts a forgiveness program or everyone defaults and the government pays back the lenders? Aren't the tax payers paying something similar both ways?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#478

Post by mac01021 » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:51 AM UTC

ginko wrote: post #468

WhompingWindows wrote: post #77

UChicago 2011 graduate here. When I attended, I paid about $20k/year in tuition, given that I had various merit scholarships, worked for the university, and that my siblings also attended school. My parents were in for a RUDE awakening in my fourth year, however, when my brother graduated his undergraduate program...UChicago found out via a survey, that I was now the sole college attendee, and without warning they ja…

What’s the reasoning behind the discount for siblings? Seems strange to me that this would affect the cost of tuition.

More kids in school translates to greater financial need per kid.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#479

Post by ip26 » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 4:53 AM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #71

As a US citizen, I see the US debt bomb ending it two different ways 1. Sanders/Warren get elected and somehow forgive 1.5 trillion in student loans and make education free going forward. 2. 2008 level crisis with (2) is the more probable I think universities tuition is way too expensive in our country, but I'm against (1) currently because I don't think retroactively forgiving debt is a good policy. The students too…

There's a few other options, such as it levels off. But something must change, whether social or governmental or economic. At the current rate of growth, by the time my kids are of age, four years at many colleges is going to cost a good deal more than my house- each. Which is not to say that can't happen- but if it did, it would go hand-in-hand with a cultural return to the days of college as a finishing school for the aristocrats, and not something normal people do anymore.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#480

Post by asdff » Tue, Nov 05, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

mortivore wrote: post #126

WhompingWindows wrote: post #77

UChicago 2011 graduate here. When I attended, I paid about $20k/year in tuition, given that I had various merit scholarships, worked for the university, and that my siblings also attended school. My parents were in for a RUDE awakening in my fourth year, however, when my brother graduated his undergraduate program...UChicago found out via a survey, that I was now the sole college attendee, and without warning they ja…

I'm curious what you think could have convinced you to attend a state school as opposed to where you went? Did you know the state school was a viable option at the time? Did your parents push you toward a state school, were they upfront with you about the cost difference? I agree with your last line, but am unsure how we would best implement that as a practicality. Young people tend not to always think in the most ef…

One thing I remember from my college admission process years ago was how overhyped it all was, especially the soap opera aspect. Everything was about numbers, and where you would get in, and where you would 'fit,' which was far more ambiguous, sinister, and completely unrooted in any logic or reasoning because you just aren't going to ever understand what your personal experience will be like until you get there.

Fretting about 'fit' keeps schools like u chicago alive. A radically unwise decision in pursuit of some romantic youthful ideal. Otherwise, everyone would just go to a state school, have largely the same college experience, end up with largely the same career outcomes, but with far less debt.