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Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

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Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#21

And I say does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? So you got downvoted in a virtual community...my gosh the mind reels.

Ironic downmods are my least favorite thing in the world. Let's downmod jamongkad just because he claims not to care about being downvoted!

Is that funny to people, or something? I just don't get it.

Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#22
post #5

"If I disagree with someone, I won't vote up. If I really disagree with someone, I'll post a rejoinder comment." I haven't been here very long but I've thought that expressing disagreement isn't the purpose of a downvote at all. Instead, it's meant to indicate that a post detracts from the discussion and probably shouldn't have been posted to begin with. Using downvotes to express disagreement would only result in di…

As an example:

There was a post about the birthday of the user edw159. Some people thought that the post wasn't hacker "newsworthy" and others thought it was ok. I commented "I think edw159 is one of the more active members and recognizing his birthday is ok" and I was downvoted pretty far. I think my comment was appropriate and it added meaningfully to the conversation, but a lot of people downvoted it to (I assume) show their disagreement.

Now I'm worried before I post any comments, partly because I'm worried I'll lose my precious karma but mostly because it's embarrassing to have a negative number next to one of your comments.

Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#23
I'd say there's more downmodding only in that there's more modding in general. Far more 10+ point comments now than six months ago, as well as far more -10 point comments.

I only rarely see negative-karma comments that don't deserve it one way or another.

Furthermore, penis.

Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#24
We had a similar conversation about down voting a few months back, I just can't find the thread anywhere. I do remember PG saying that he thought that it was okay to down vote something that you disagreed with as well as down vote non-quality comments.

Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#25
post #22
post #5

"If I disagree with someone, I won't vote up. If I really disagree with someone, I'll post a rejoinder comment." I haven't been here very long but I've thought that expressing disagreement isn't the purpose of a downvote at all. Instead, it's meant to indicate that a post detracts from the discussion and probably shouldn't have been posted to begin with. Using downvotes to express disagreement would only result in di…

As an example: There was a post about the birthday of the user edw159. Some people thought that the post wasn't hacker "newsworthy" and others thought it was ok. I commented "I think edw159 is one of the more active members and recognizing his birthday is ok" and I was downvoted pretty far. I think my comment was appropriate and it added meaningfully to the conversation, but a lot of people downvoted it to (I assume)…

Exactly. I saw that and was really surprised. Burying you comment like that was an aggressively unfriendly act; two adjectives I never thought I would use to describe this place.

Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#26
post #5

"If I disagree with someone, I won't vote up. If I really disagree with someone, I'll post a rejoinder comment." I haven't been here very long but I've thought that expressing disagreement isn't the purpose of a downvote at all. Instead, it's meant to indicate that a post detracts from the discussion and probably shouldn't have been posted to begin with. Using downvotes to express disagreement would only result in di…

PG once before weighed in with "it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement" [1].

But, the mixing of the "quality" axis with an "agree/disagree" axis risks coarsening discussion. A disagree-downvote is mildly censorious: it lowers a comment's placement and docks the commenter's karma. It stings.

I don't want to downvote comments simply because I disagree, but if such comments are highly-placed because of some superficial popular appeal, and comments I more agree with are lowly-placed, I want to restore some balance of attention. I then tend to cast a few votes based on agreement/disagreement.

One possible answer is an idea I've plugged whenever this issue comes up: start a second orthogonal rating axis that is explicitly for agree/disagree [2][3]. It could be little left/right arrows, at the end of the comment. Then you might 'disvote' a comment you disagree with, but still 'upvote' it because it was well-stated... etc.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171

[2] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117196

[3] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=126917

Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#27
post #5

"If I disagree with someone, I won't vote up. If I really disagree with someone, I'll post a rejoinder comment." I haven't been here very long but I've thought that expressing disagreement isn't the purpose of a downvote at all. Instead, it's meant to indicate that a post detracts from the discussion and probably shouldn't have been posted to begin with. Using downvotes to express disagreement would only result in di…

This has been talked about before too.[1] I think the issue is generally that downmodding means different things to different people. Some use it to kill trolls, others to agree/disagree. I generally agree with you regarding how I downmod.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=147098

Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#28
post #21

And I say does it really matter in the grand scheme of things? So you got downvoted in a virtual community...my gosh the mind reels.

Ironic downmods are my least favorite thing in the world. Let's downmod jamongkad just because he claims not to care about being downvoted! Is that funny to people, or something? I just don't get it.

I downvoted jamongkad because he made a shallow argument.

You can say what he said about anything because there is always something more important than something else. It's a cheap way to dismiss someone without actually addressing their points.

Re: Ask PG: Are people getting more liberal with their downvotes?

#29
post #22
post #5

"If I disagree with someone, I won't vote up. If I really disagree with someone, I'll post a rejoinder comment." I haven't been here very long but I've thought that expressing disagreement isn't the purpose of a downvote at all. Instead, it's meant to indicate that a post detracts from the discussion and probably shouldn't have been posted to begin with. Using downvotes to express disagreement would only result in di…

As an example: There was a post about the birthday of the user edw159. Some people thought that the post wasn't hacker "newsworthy" and others thought it was ok. I commented "I think edw159 is one of the more active members and recognizing his birthday is ok" and I was downvoted pretty far. I think my comment was appropriate and it added meaningfully to the conversation, but a lot of people downvoted it to (I assume)…

Initially you may worry about karma (as I did too) but we have to realise it does not exist (and that it does not matter)!

I now appreciate down votes and see it as a way for the community to 'teach me' (not in a negative way par se but as a guiding/helping hand) in the simplest way possible.

:)

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