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U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#271

Post by rayiner »

jdsully wrote: post #262
rayiner wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TUM has a $1.1 billion budget and 41,000 students. Chicago has a $2.6 billion budget and 16,000 students.

Could you elaborate a little on why that's relevant? Is the extra money providing materially better education? Is it somehow impossible for Chicago to lower their costs?

It's a reference to the "land of the free" dig. The U.S. already spends similar amounts of public money on higher education as Germany, etc. (As a %-age of GDP). We don't have free universities, however, because our universities spend vastly more money. That has benefits for students. In my own experience, going to an expensive private law school was a much nicer experience than going to a rigorous, but more spartan, public engineering school for undergrad. There was much more academic support, hand-holding, mental health services, beautiful facilities, etc. Even American community colleges are really nice. (My mother in law works at a community college in rural Oregon. It's got a fantastic, brand-new fitness facility with sweeping views, etc.)

We can debate about whether that's a good use of money, or what spending priorities should be. Maybe the right thing to do is cut costs, preserving an equivalent education experience while cutting frills. Or, maybe Americans are so rich it's reasonable for us to splurge on all of that stuff. But Americans aren't irrational. It's not like Americans are just sitting here refusing to adopt an approach that would get them the same college experience for vastly less money.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#272

Post by mam2 »

kansface wrote: post #171
stefano wrote: post #154

What I find funny in these discussions on HN is how most people seem to be completely oblivious to the obvious solution, proven to work in many developed countries around the world: have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students (or charge them a small amount). Why is the assumption "universities are private endeavours that should make a profit" something that goes unchallenged on HN?

Most colleges/universities are nonprofits and they still charge tens of thousands per semester. I will also point out that the European model is not free, universal college degrees for all - access is restricted behind rigorous entrance exams. Such a system would be politically untenable in the US wherein a growing movement wants to do away with all entry tests. What would actually happen in practice is that we would…

> I will also point out that the European model is not free, universal college degrees for all - access is restricted behind rigorous entrance exams

WHAT ?? Not. at. all.

I'm french and university is almost FREE (never more than 1000 euros a year and mostly around 300) for anyone with the A-level, at any age. Yeah of course there are exams like for any diploma in the entire world but there are not "super rigorous" especially at uni. There's only a "hard" exam in medecine, and normal "exams" every year (like in every program in the world) that are basically a joke for anyone qualified in these disciplines. If you want you can enroll in elite tracks, which are very hard, but they are almost free too (i paid 0 for the education, 200 a year for housing + around 60 euro per month of food).

Granted you have amphitheater with hundreds of people, but if you are motivated you'll get the education.

The most expensive school in frances are the high end economic school and some engineering school (not the best ones actually) and it's under 10k a year.

You have no idea of how much you get screwed in the US

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#273

Post by aikah »

julienb_sea wrote: post #160
chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

Good luck with that. You just made college out of reach for everyone that isn't already wealthy, exacerbating inequality and further entrenching class boundaries. To be clear, I agree with you, rip out the loan guarantees and let the private market deal. But progressives would never allow this.

> Good luck with that. You just made college out of reach for everyone that isn't already wealthy, exacerbating inequality and further entrenching class boundaries.

You could apply that argument to anything. "Good luck with that, now people can't afford mansions, Good luck with that now people can't afford private jets".

Should everybody be able to afford mansions or private jets? No.

College should either be free, thus directly paid for by the government, or not everybody should go to college, you can't have it both ways, or that's how you'll get your big next financial crisis. The government should not back private loans, period.

Cost of education has skyrocketed BECAUSE banks started to loan crazy amounts of money to every students. This is free money for the banks.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#274

Post by ekianjo »

stefano wrote: post #154

What I find funny in these discussions on HN is how most people seem to be completely oblivious to the obvious solution, proven to work in many developed countries around the world: have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students (or charge them a small amount). Why is the assumption "universities are private endeavours that should make a profit" something that goes unchallenged on HN?

> have the state directly fund universities and don't charge tuition to students

That's how you end up with "Education" being the first cost element of the French budget (about 72 billions EUR per year) despite pretty poor academic results (that can be easily observed in the ever-decreasing level of the national exams). When government manages everything in one field, that field becomes mismanaged (trains: SNCF always in the red, the post office: ever increasing costs for users year after year, etc...)

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#275

Post by AcerbicZero »

The vast majority of jobs/careers/professions do not require sitting in a classroom for 4 years to learn enough to do them. Even less require sitting in an extremely expensive classroom for 4 years.

At the same time learning has never been more accessible. I can study Python, mechanical engineering, calculus, aviation ground school, etc all without leaving the house if I wanted. So how does a commodity like education, which is basically free for the people who want to learn, increase in price?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#276

Post by interlocutor »

adrr wrote: post #64
agent008t wrote: post #40

How can these universities be so expensive, if you can instead go to a just-as-good university in the UK for a fraction of the cost, even as a foreign student? Why does anyone agree to pay such fees?

You can attend a public university in the US for a fraction of the cost. UCLA is $12,000 a year for tuition. You can also do two years at a community college which costs almost nothing like $50 a credit and transfer to a 4 year university for the the remaining two years.

If you add room and board UCLA is $65,000 for out-of-state students: http://www.admission.ucla.edu/Prospect/budget.htm Compare that to $74,000 for Stanford. Suddenly Stanford looks not so bad! https://financialaid.stanford.edu/undergrad/budget/index.htm...

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#277

Post by richardknop »

glerk wrote: post #267
apta wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Throughout history, every time loans are invented to pay for something, the price skyrockets. Which is why interest-bearing loans are prohibited in the three major religions. Puts things into perspective.

Which major religion other than Islam forbids it?

It's been some time since my Bible studies but isn't there something in the Old Testament against loans / lending money with interest?

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#278

Post by maccard »

afarrell wrote: post #219
JBorrow wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point about entrance exams is, in general, not true. University applications in Europe are very similar to those in the USA.

What is the European version of SAT/ACT scores and AP tests?

Ireland has a leaving certificate - 6 subjects graded and points awarded, those points are used as a gatekeeper for universities. UK has A-levels, 3 AP level subjects which gate University access.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#279

Post by blat001 »

tallon wrote: post #144
slg wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is fundamentally incompatible with the idea that everyone should be able to afford to go to college and private institutions need to foot the bill for the costs. We as a society prioritized availability of college education over costs. In order to get both you would likely have to change to some income percentage based repayment system instead of traditional loan repayments and that probably wouldn't be possible…

Half of all college students don't finish their 4-year degree in 5 years, and it's not due to cost. Even countries like France, Netherlands, etc which have lower costs for college, place you in a track when you're in your freshman year of high school. This track determines if you're going to college, a trade, or somewhere in between, and it's hard to switch from lower to higher tracks. College should not be a goal fo…

We also need to consider modernizing our "trade" skill list.

Based on the success of bootcamps etc.... I do wonder if software engineering would be better as a trade skill rather than university

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#280

Post by kome »

_bxg1 wrote: post #268
mytailorisrich wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My understanding is that the US system is dual: On the one hand there are private universities that charge freely, but on the other hand there are also public universities that charge reasonable fees (at least for state residents). It's not unreasonable to charge tuition fees that are significant enough to make sure student will choose seriously and study diligently. I say that because it is certainly not always the…

"Reasonable" is relative. Tuition at U.S. "public" universities is still around $10k per year, even if you're in-state: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/24/tuition-at-public-universiti...

that's indeed not reasonable. who can spend 10k in a year???
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