I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb • Hacker News Board

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#431

Post by markdown » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:01 PM UTC

dreamcompiler wrote: post #408

jschwartzi wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When my fiance and I stayed at a place in Paia on Maui, the place looked immaculate from the pictures. But when we got there it was full of cockroaches. We had literally just gotten in at like 4 pm, put groceries down on the counter, and the little buggers were on them almost immediately. We were exhausted and didn't have the energy to really do anything after our 6 hour plane flight. The hosts came in and tried to r…

At least cockroaches don't bite. We got an Airbnb once in Belize that was effectively open air (it was too hot otherwise and there was no A/C) and the bed had mosquito netting around it which didn't go all the way to the ceiling . The host said "Oh just use the fan. Mosquitos hate fans." Of course the fan didn't work. We vacated that place quick. I still don't know whether this was a scam or simply a case of the loca…

The latter. Mosquitoes really do hate fans.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#432

Post by linksnapzz » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:02 PM UTC

toast0 wrote: post #88

throw_m239339 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'd think AirBnB would be more alarmed about the reputational and consequent business hit of this sort of thing. Maybe they will be after this article? AirBnB is/used to be cheap. People want cheap. They don't want to pay $200 a night for a hotel room when they travel to Paris, AirBnB knows that so I think they are much more concerned about the size of their inventory than the satisfaction of the guest or their r…

> These people seem truly untouchable. Without knowing details about AirBnB's corporate structure, I assume they don't have any subsidiaries or offices or employees in France. That makes it hard (but not impossible) to compel them to follow French law, or local laws in France. The easier option is to write a law that compels payment processors to disallow payments to or from a company that does XYZ, then declare AirB…

Still not sure how localities in the US haven't bothered to shut down AirBnB.

Which is funny; not sure how it would work in France, but many US jurisdictions have profoundly vicious civil forfeiture laws, where a local (not even talking about state or federal, just a town/county/city) police force can seize property thought to be used in or related to criminal activity, and keep it for themselves. Or auction it off and keep the proceeds.

Running an unlicensed hotel is a crime in many jurisdictions. As is operating a hotel with fire-code or safety violations.

If you start seizing buildings from people, word will get around quickly. Especially in the nicer neighborhoods.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#433

Post by lovehashbrowns » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:09 PM UTC

tamalpais wrote: post #318

A solution to this problem, which seems common to many large platform companies, could be third-party verification. A trusted third-party could subject hosts and guests according to a more stringent vetting process. It could even scan listings for guests eager to book in the same way Fakespot, et al., do for Amazon product listings. [0] For those interested in online trust in marketplaces, I recommend Planet Money's…

Sadly, that adds friction to the sign-up process. Companies that operate like this, "charge instantly, investigate eventually," are like the plague. Amazon is getting up there, too, with its co-mingled inventories full of counterfeit products. But at least Amazon has good customer service.

I'm very scared of using airbnb because of stories like this. I've only used it once. All other times, I've stayed exclusively in hotels, because at least then I have a proper way of getting my money back. I have a way to know that if I book my room, I'll have somewhere to stay, guaranteed. I have a way to get a new room instantly if my current room is unacceptable. And with a hotel, I know who I can complain to! That's the worst part about this dumb scam for me. Airbnb refunds you a small percentage of the full price, and the host ghosts you. Now you're SOL unless your credit card company has mercy on you and decides to rule in your favor. What a shitty, stressful situation.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#434

Post by robocat » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

ummonk wrote: post #117

bluetidepro wrote: post #20

Mentioned this in another comment, but it blows my mind that the author ends with: > "Even after a month of digging through public records, scouring the internet for clues, repeatedly calling Airbnb and confronting the man who called himself Patrick, I can’t say I’ll be leaving the platform, either. Dealing with Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system is still just a bit cheaper than renting…

I wonder whether there is some sort of penny-wise pound-foolish mentality at work with most AirBnB users that causes them to continue choosing AirBnB to save money over hotels even after being majorly scammed like the people in this article were?

For me, AirBnB usually isn't about the cost, but the ability to rent a unique place that is nothing like a hotel or where a hotel is unavailable.

Read the rest of the comments here, and there are many others with similar reasons.

Also I loath high end hotels - saccharine service with lifeless interiors and a walking dead ambiance.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#435

Post by bluedevil2k » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

thebiglebrewski wrote: post #379

kingbirdy wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The asymmetry of the platform is really my biggest gripe. Hosts & AirBnB themselves have basically no way to lose money on the platform and are laughing all the way to the bank, while users can be left with nowhere to stay 5 minutes before check in, and be forced to pay 2-20x what they paid for the AirBnB to get a comparable place last minute. It's absolutely fucked, and it's the same deal for most major corporations…

Give me a break, Hosts have plenty of ways to lose money and take a huge risk renting their place out in the first place. People cancel last minute (if you have the nicer cancellation policies in place), leave beer bottles everywhere, and are sometimes just really unreasonable. Some guests are great though which makes it worth it! We also have to deal with Airbnb issues, like when a guest leaves a review that isn't t…

Even when people cancel last minute, they still have to pay the Service Fee (money to AirBNB). As the OP pointed out, there's asymmetry...AirBNB always wins.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#436

Post by bluedevil2k » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:14 PM UTC

vpEfljFL wrote: post #399

bluedevil2k wrote: post #121

I've run into a scam recently on AirBNB and several situations that ended up screwing me over. The scam was after booking a nice place in Orlando, Florida for a week through my wife's AirBNB account. The day after booking, the "owner" sent an email saying that they required a photograph of the front and back of her credit card, drivers license picture and full name. Not even a subtle scam, but that would probably foo…

What bugs me in this thread is that the whole idea of airbnb is cheaply stay in someone's property with "air bed and breakfast" (of course some properties are pricey but in genereal it just another category of bookings than general airbnb hosts). Air bad and breakfast type of hosts could not be reliable by definition. If you want a predictable experience you will get a better luck working with professionals (either h…

> the whole idea of airbnb is cheaply stay in someone's property with "air bed and breakfast"

No, that was the whole idea in the beginning, now "AirBNB" is a high-value brand, built on the idea that you can stay anywhere at any price level like it's your own home.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#437

Post by mullingitover » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:17 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #428

yason wrote: post #335

The late cancellation by host without no specific penalties seems to be one of the most prevalent yet disturbing elements in this. The one who's travelling has the weakest odds of all. The traveler will be in a foreign place with no place to stay. In contrast, the host has no losing cards except some income. The rules should, thus, have been written to protect the traveler at the expense of the host because the host…

Still better than Uber where if the driver cancels more than 5 minutes after accepting the ride, the rider gets charged (as if the rider had cancelled). They're very fast to issue refunds, but only if requested... I wonder how many people just never notice the fraudulent charge! One reason I minimally trust Uber and keep checking all their charges...

A person close to me had a driver fail to end the ride, and drove around several miles racking up charges. When she noticed this and complained to Uber, they rejected her claim. When she disputed Uber's fraudulent charge on her credit card, they blacklisted her account.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#438

Post by elipsey » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:18 PM UTC

jancsika wrote: post #366

elchupanebre wrote: post #342

Here is another scam that someone tried to pull on me. I booked a place in Reno a week in advance. On the night before check-in at about 2am I got a text from the host asking me to increase the price of stay by $20. That was small and I did not want the hassle of arguing but just decided to leave it till morning. In the morning I looked at it again on computer (as opposed to the phone) and saw something odd: the date…

That is such an elegant scam. It's like a magic trick complete with misdirection. Is there market where HN-type people come up with these and sell them to people to implement?

lol, you're here too. This sort of reminds me of people at bars complaining about the type of people they meet at bars. :)

What does "HN-type people" mean to you?

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#439

Post by robocat » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #406

I've only used Airbnb once, but it was a smooth experience. But after reading this and all the comments here, I'm unlikely to use them again. As far as I'm concerned, Airbnb is complicit in all these scams. They literally give zero shits about these scam artists, because they're getting paid either way.

It sounds like you are overly risk-averse (I'm guessing you are not a founder?).

AirBnB is rewards versus risks, as the article author implies right at the end.

I have used a wide variety of accommodation: AirBnB, hotels, staying with friends, short term rentals, campervans, cars, outdoors, staying with randoms I have met.

They all have benefits, and they all have risks.

AirBnB has given me a huge range of different benefits, and I super appreciate that it exists.

Re: I Accidentally Uncovered a Nationwide Scam on Airbnb

#440

Post by dmitrygr » Thu, Oct 31, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

cogman10 wrote: post #123

joezydeco wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even after a >>>month of digging through public records...Dealing with Airbnb’s easily exploitable and occasionally crazy-making system is still just a bit cheaper than renting a hotel." It's constantly amazing to see how little people value their time when it comes to stuff like this. Maybe when we're getting yearly salaries we don't compute out the hourly cost but, man, do the math once in a while.

Heh, you know, the funny part is that I'll spend just a little extra on my hotel stays (Meaning, I'm not staying at the Howard Johnson's behind Walmart, even if it is $40 a night). I've never had very few bad experiences as a result. It costs money to run a hotel well. From the front desk to the cleaning staff. If a stay costs you $40 a night, you have to ask yourself "What are they skimping on? Are they not washing…

Hotel taxes are usually high. AirBnB at its core is just a way to run a hotel without paying those.