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Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

catalannews.com

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Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#51

Post by UserIsUnused »

throwaway8756 wrote: post #34
mcv wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least some Catalan separatists feel Spain is denying them their own culture and forcing Spanish culture on them. Bull fighting, for example, is something Catalonia banned at some point, after which Madrid wanted to overturn the ban because they considered bull fighting Spanish cultural heritage.

Bull fighting was prohibited because it was originated in Spain (not the official reason though, just speculation). "Correbous" a very cruel sport as well, which it was originated in Catalunya, it's, in contrast, very much supported. So I'm not really sure it's two very different cultures.

Running away from restrained bulls is not the same as torturing and killing a bull for show.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#52

Post by kuu »

AllegedAlec wrote: post #42
UserIsUnused wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could have gone the legal route, and push to amend the constitution first. Not doing so shows the manipulative/dishonest nature of the leaders.

Your reply shows your manipulative and dishonest nature. There are very good reasons why the Catalans would not go for a push to amend the constitution. - They believe it's a lost cause, since they are heavily outnumbered and the rest of Spain would be insane to just accede to losing 30+% of their wealth - They know that the government of Spain will never let this happen. - They do not accept the authority of the gov…

And your reply shows how selfish you are.

As the majority does not want to do as I want, I take my way, without any other consideration.

Even the catalan people is not supporting this as a majority, you're ruling without considering the 50% of catalonian people.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#53

Post by arijun »

throwaway8756 wrote: post #40
andy_ppp wrote: post #6

The aggressive attitude towards Catalan separatism by the Spanish government seems that it will make independence inevitable...

To be honest, I think we already are in a point of no-return. Not necessarily to the independence though, but who knows...

What's the alternative to independence if they cannot return to the status quo?

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#54

Post by justin66 »

ahachete wrote: post #27
mikece wrote: post #4

Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…

There are many alleged reasons why some people from Catalonia want to secede from Spain. They all probably boil down to the perspective that they are a "rich" region and they will do better on their own. Similar to Brexit. Probably, same wrong perspective. Irrespective of this, Spanish Constitution has a very strong enforcement of Spain's sovereignty and unity. It belongs to all Spanish people. So if that is to be al…

> They all probably boil down to the perspective that they are a "rich" region and they will do better on their own.

All of them? That is ridiculous. It's a region that has maintained its own language since the founding of the modern Spanish state, they clearly have some cultural differences with their parent country.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#55

Post by gmueckl »

ahachete wrote: post #27
mikece wrote: post #4

Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…

There are many alleged reasons why some people from Catalonia want to secede from Spain. They all probably boil down to the perspective that they are a "rich" region and they will do better on their own. Similar to Brexit. Probably, same wrong perspective. Irrespective of this, Spanish Constitution has a very strong enforcement of Spain's sovereignty and unity. It belongs to all Spanish people. So if that is to be al…

One thing to note here is that the Spanish government pushed heavily on favor of the interpretation that a region that splits from an EU member state also drops out of the EU. This is a calculated move to create a disincentive.

The flipside is that Spain was pushing for this when Scotland was holding its independence referendum. So the Scottish people were told that they would crash out of the EU if they voted for independence. Now they are forced to leave the EU because they voted against independence.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#56

Post by hevi_jos »

sgt wrote: post #26
mikece wrote: post #4

Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…

Why doesn't Spain just give them more autonomy? Or is Spain actually the "bad guys" here ?

Because Spain is currently one of the more decentralized country in the world?

Spain created the "autonomias" in order to appease secessionists.

Not a brilliant idea given them the control of the Education(that teaches them that Spain robs them and creates fiction about their past, all while rejecting Spanish), of the Police(so their friends could close roads without consequences), put levies to shops that used Spanish in their signs and tracks and harass those kids that use Spanish in School's recess.

BTW, the secessionist want to own Catalonia, but it feels too less to them, they also want Valencia and the Balearic Islands. And if you let them a big part of Aragón.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#57

Post by AllegedAlec »

kuu wrote: post #52
AllegedAlec wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your reply shows your manipulative and dishonest nature. There are very good reasons why the Catalans would not go for a push to amend the constitution. - They believe it's a lost cause, since they are heavily outnumbered and the rest of Spain would be insane to just accede to losing 30+% of their wealth - They know that the government of Spain will never let this happen. - They do not accept the authority of the gov…

And your reply shows how selfish you are. As the majority does not want to do as I want, I take my way, without any other consideration. Even the catalan people is not supporting this as a majority, you're ruling without considering the 50% of catalonian people.

I don't see how it's selfish. If you believe that something is wrong, it's your moral imperative to try to rectify a situation, regardless of what others think about it.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#58

Post by carokann »

Separatist movements in Spain are dangerous for the entirety of Europe. The world is much less stable nowadays and the last thing you'd want is an armed civil-war like conflict in the heart of Europe. But i'm a Turk that grew up watching news of my fellow citizens killed by separatists on the TV so maybe i'm a little bit more sensitive to this issue.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#59

Post by johnsteward »

ahachete wrote: post #27
mikece wrote: post #4

Slightly off topic, but is there a good, short summary of why Catalonia wants to separate from Spain? I would think this would enhance the standing of the EU as it weakens the power of one of its larger members. Heck, wouldn’t it be in the interest of nefarious EU types to have countries like Spain, Italy, Germany, and France and their regions/states/departments become member States or autonomous regions within the E…

There are many alleged reasons why some people from Catalonia want to secede from Spain. They all probably boil down to the perspective that they are a "rich" region and they will do better on their own. Similar to Brexit. Probably, same wrong perspective. Irrespective of this, Spanish Constitution has a very strong enforcement of Spain's sovereignty and unity. It belongs to all Spanish people. So if that is to be al…

Catalonia isn't the richest region of Spain anymore. The separate identity emerges from a distinct latinic language--Catalan--, and a history of past independence.

The perceived lack of respect by Spanish authorities of Catalan culture is a major issue. The fact that militarized Spanish police--the "guardia civil"--ignore Catalan law (which is part of Spanish law) when it comes to e.g. the use of rubber bullets (forbidden in Catalonia) against demonstrators isn't helping. The judiciary branch not prosecuting these illegal acts only adds further tension. And the right-wing Spaniards displaying Franco-era national flags with the black eagle--illegal in Spain--in their demonstrations, all the while taking selfies with on-duty civil guards only comes to show that the Spanish institutions, judiciary, executive, legislative and the military have already taken sides, and will ignore their own law to preserve the unity of the territory, even if that means dismantling the democratic foundations of the state.

Re: Spain will prevent “digital republic” in Catalonia

#60

Post by throwaway8756 »

UserIsUnused wrote: post #51
throwaway8756 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bull fighting was prohibited because it was originated in Spain (not the official reason though, just speculation). "Correbous" a very cruel sport as well, which it was originated in Catalunya, it's, in contrast, very much supported. So I'm not really sure it's two very different cultures.

Running away from restrained bulls is not the same as torturing and killing a bull for show.

Did you look for images? They torture the bulls by attaching burning items to their horns. Running away is the least significant part. It's a very cruel activity that end up with a lot of dead bulls.

BTW, I also hate bull fighting.

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