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Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

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Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#281

Post by notadev »

jotakami wrote: post #59

A number of years ago I was in the Navy and worked in an electronics shop on an aircraft carrier. We were responsible for calibrating and repairing all the test and measurement equipment for the entire ship as well as the squadrons that we carried with us. Easily over 10k individual pieces of equipment, each of which had to be calibrated on a specific schedule. Most of this data was managed centrally, and we sent/rec…

If the calibrations were on a schedule, shouldn't Sked have handled that? I was in the Navy as well. I've made countless databases, batch files, and VBScript just to automate and streamline tasking that the Navy refused to let you use non-gov tools like web apps and whatnot. I even created a fully finctioning VTC scheduling web application running on IIS and using classic ASP with a bootstrap/jQuery front-end for one of the bigger numbered fleets. This was in 2016. When they are all you reallly have, you can do wonders with the MS Office suite.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#282

Post by kqvamxurcagg »

I work for a small finance firm. Before I joined everything was maintained ad-hoc in spreadsheets with no defined structure or consistency. I developed an Access database that now acts as our data warehouse and reporting engine. We are talking here about tens of thousands of rows of data not millions. Access has forms that allow non-technical users easy access. SQL queries can run more complicated reports. Excel can also easily import Access queries and tables.

Programmers often don't understand that Excel and Access are valuable because you don't need a programmer, simply a professional with some technical knowledge. Developing a fully-fledged solution would slow you down and increase your developer headcount by 1. If any modifications need to be made you could waiting weeks for an IT/Developer team to react. IT often acts as a blocker for us trying to get work done with limited data sets.

There is nothing else quite like Access on the market. Air table is but a toy for those of us in business that need a serious tool that can integrate with Excel and has aggregate and SQL querying capabilities.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#283

Post by akho »

perl4ever wrote: post #175
mdorazio wrote: post #5

As the author points out, Access fills an interesting niche where Excel isn't quite enough, but a SQL database and all the stuff that goes along with it is way too much. On top of that, it's completely local so you don't have to pay for licenses or worry about data policies. That niche is big enough to sustain Access pretty much indefinitely. I think the lesson here is that business users more often than not want som…

I'm not clear on why you are referring to Access as an alternative to a "SQL based application". Access's SQL dialect is extremely annoying sometimes, but using SQL is a very significant (if not the most) reason for utilizing it rather than Excel. I went around and around trying to find a way to query Excel "tables" with SQL or something similar, but eventually gave up. There is something called DAX, but it seems dif…

DAX is unrelated.

There’s M in PowerQuery. It is also not SQL, but I do believe that it’s better for the task.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#284

Post by TeMPOraL »

blihp wrote: post #279
TeMPOraL wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see that, given that in modern times, Microsoft is the only tech giant that can still build user-empowering software. Not Windows, that's getting dumbed down UX-side. But Office suite still includes Access and Excel, the latter being probably the single highest productivity booster in modern companies (to the chagrin of IT departments). And you're essentially saying that this is already another or…

If you look at how things have progressed from the GUI desktop->web->mobile you get a reasonably good flavor of the trade-offs that have been, and continue to be, made. Compare the richest, most powerful spreadsheet application you can find on the desktop to the same on the web to the same on mobile... there you go ;-) (and it isn't just the relative maturity of the platforms: once one player dominates a platform, th…

> [1] It's 'good enough' for the majority of use cases. Some would argue that the lost features were cruft anyway. Which is fine unless you needed that cruft...

I don't like that "good enough" argument, because it misses the fact that features shape use patterns. Features are enablers.

To give a random example: I once visited my wife's office, and was given a task I could help them with while waiting. It was a task they did very frequently, and it boiled down to specifying a search query, and then adjusting some data in each of the result. They thought it'll keep me occupied for an hour or two, manually adjusting each of the hundreds of results, but I looked around the software and found a way to do a bulk update hidden somewhere in the UI, and was done in 3 minutes.

I taught the people in that office the trick and they were grateful, but it made me wonder - what if one day the software vendor removes bulk update switch because it's rarely used? It's only rarely used because it's not easily discoverable (but the telemetry will not tell you that). Wondering even further - how much money and opportunity to growth do companies lose on office tasks that are inefficient only because software was developed for the lowest common denominator, and offers no advanced features and no path to mastery?

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#285

Post by motogpjimbo »

bob1029 wrote: post #110
jotakami wrote: post #59

A number of years ago I was in the Navy and worked in an electronics shop on an aircraft carrier. We were responsible for calibrating and repairing all the test and measurement equipment for the entire ship as well as the squadrons that we carried with us. Easily over 10k individual pieces of equipment, each of which had to be calibrated on a specific schedule. Most of this data was managed centrally, and we sent/rec…

Being able to automate forms can absolutely revolutionize some businesses. Many business owners have no idea the extent to which automation is feasible here. I have seen fully manual paper process (printers/scanners/pen & ink/shredders/etc.) go into 100% digital realm and the impact it had on the business. It really is incredible the difference it makes. The most interesting factor was the fact that now that the inpu…

> Being able to automate forms can absolutely revolutionize some businesses

I once worked for an insurance brokerage whose in-house CRM had started years before as an effort to automate paper-based forms. The company's business model was based on having their sales advisers fill out insurance policy application forms on their customers' behalf and originally this had been done using pen-and paper, which was obviously time-consuming and laborious.

At some point, someone in the IT department had had the idea of scanning the application forms to image files and writing a simple PHP application to insert those images onto web pages with HTML tags superimposed over the form fields, thus allowing advisers to fill in the forms using keyboard entry.

They quickly realised that once forms are filled in digitally, (a) you can store the form data into the database and retrieve it later for further editing, (b) some of the data can be filled in automatically from the customer's records and (c) when generating quotes across multiple insurance providers, the common parts of each insurer's form can be filled in from data previously entered elsewhere.

While the idea of superimposing HTML input fields over a scanned paper form isn't one I've encountered before or since, that company was turning over $3M per month by the time I joined, so there is clearly mileage in the idea.

Incidentally, it turns out that basing your entry forms around scanned paper forms completely kills dead any of the interminable bikeshedding that takes place around UX design with complicated, multi-section forms.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#287

Post by jotakami »

notadev wrote: post #281
jotakami wrote: post #59

A number of years ago I was in the Navy and worked in an electronics shop on an aircraft carrier. We were responsible for calibrating and repairing all the test and measurement equipment for the entire ship as well as the squadrons that we carried with us. Easily over 10k individual pieces of equipment, each of which had to be calibrated on a specific schedule. Most of this data was managed centrally, and we sent/rec…

If the calibrations were on a schedule, shouldn't Sked have handled that? I was in the Navy as well. I've made countless databases, batch files, and VBScript just to automate and streamline tasking that the Navy refused to let you use non-gov tools like web apps and whatnot. I even created a fully finctioning VTC scheduling web application running on IIS and using classic ASP with a bootstrap/jQuery front-end for one…

You’ll understand when I say this: our lab was part of AIMD, so we were governed by NAVAIR instructions. Sked was for shipboard maintenance, but we technically weren’t performing “shipboard” maintenance so we didn’t use it.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#288

Post by brisance »

cally wrote: post #249
brisance wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Airtable still require internet access? That's a non-starter for many businesses which only have intermittent internet access.

really? I mean, I get the aircraft carrier examples above but I reckon most business have internet access now. I reckon (in the UK) loads of one man bands run everything off their phones. They're probably more likely to have access to the internet than MS Access.

Yes, really. There are still many places that do not have internet access, some of them on purpose. e.g. military installations.

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#289

Post by floki999 »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #172
drblast wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh, similar story here. The nuclear department on my carrier needed to produce this monthly report for training hours that would take them a ton of manual effort. There was no budget at all for any kind of automation but Access was on every machine. I know what I'm doing with databases. I never want to use Access if I don't have to. But it has the enviable property of "no server administration required" which meant…

I wonder if sqlite could become this in the future.

All these responses demonstrate the typical issue with today’s dev mindset... i.e. wanting to develop a solution where there is no problem to solve, and very often resulting in an alternative with more issues than the original tool. There is a reason why MS Access and Excel endure: they are far from perfect and have tons of limitations, but they do solve the very basic function they were designed to fulfill. An IT solution which is simple, robust and allows users to do their job without relying on tech support and maintenance is just a beautiful thing - that’s what technology should be about. Not, this endless envy to refactor what is working just fine for for the user... I love the examples presented above of areas where Access solves a real problem and helps them save valuable time, in difficult working conditions!

Re: Microsoft Access: The Database Software That Won't Die

#290

Post by jjkaczor »

encoderer wrote: post #125
SigmundA wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I didn't say it was without problems, but it did mostly work , mostly... Once I started learning SQL server and VB5 for real client server apps I never looked back, but then you had to go find a reporting engine too.

Crystal reports. Shudder.

I hated it so bad, I eventually took it off my resume.
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