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Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

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Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being not American, and given that if we assume that school are business like any others I would be curious to know why the university fees has inflated so much over the last decades. Shouldn't we expect price decreasing due to competition? Any law or anything else explaining this?

Federal student loan guarantees and subsidies complicate the economics. Lenders are prepared to provide larger and riskier loans than the marker would otherwise support. Universities can handle only a limited number of students, so they have no incentive to lower prices until it would result in a marginal slot going unfilled.

> Lenders are prepared to provide larger and riskier loans than the marker would otherwise support.

The only lender that has benefitted from federal guarantees/subsidies for a number of years is...the US Department of Education. Whose lending is directed by the same laws that provide the guarantees and subsidies, and so are not incentivized by them.

Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#62

Being a former Parisian, I can object here you can be a medal fields winner and not having a clue about economic problem. Paris is facing quite sensible issues right now ( higher debt, untidy streets, insecurity,etc...) and for now all he's proposing here is very similar to what any others politician would offer to get elected. Parisians need some radical changements and for now I haven't heard anything from him tack…

> Paris is facing quite sensible issues right now ( higher debt, untidy streets, insecurity,etc...)

Most of these problems stem from national-level irresponsible policies such as uncontrolled immigration. They won't be fixed by the mayor alone, and they plague most big and even medium cities in the country.

Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, I think free college for everyone is a terrible idea. Most people consider that heresy. A terrible idea from what perspective? I'd love to hear more! (I'm on the other side of the spectrum)

I'm not opposed to free college if 1) you're studying something with a proven ROI, and/or 2) you have a good academic history, and/or 3) you can't otherwise afford it. I think the idea that someone can get straight C's in highschool and get $50k a year to study art in college is not a good use of my tax dollars. I also don't think it's a good idea to give someone like me a free college education. I make $400k a year.…

I think it will be the death of society and culture if rank areas of study by ROI. Businesses need engineers and accountants, but society needs philosophers, artists, musicians and social scientists. It's about the balance between those two.

Actually, I am not sure what its like in the United States. Are only the rich allowed to study art or theater?

Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#64
post #21

He is already an elected representative in the French parliament, being part of the current government's majority. His political party and the government have already passed several laws that are very damaging to research and higher education (among other things, but these two topics Villani actually knows something about, and he should care a bit given his background). He has never said anything publicly about it, o…

Very well said. He is part of the clique that made a hold-up on the last presidential election. Most of these people are opportunists who smelt the wind but don't care about addressing the real issues of the country that make master-level people emigrate instead of staying at home. They maintain the statu here and there, liberalise companies and deregulate few sectors as gift to friends, speak empty words all the time ("values of our Republic", "democracy", etc.) while not giving a shit about any professionals (nurses, police, firemen) that rightfully manifest their fedupness. They are perfectly grooming the "populism" they despite.

Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#65
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"dommageable" is "damaging", for anyone who couldn't guess. Can you go into detail about what his party has voted for that's so bad for higher education and research? I consider myself pretty academia-friendly, and there's a lot of things I'd vote for that most people would consider damaging to higher education and research. For example, I think free college for everyone is a terrible idea. Most people consider that…

First we do not agree on free education. I believe that's a good thing. Now, what Macron's government did wrong with research and higher education is: literally everything they did about it. The switch to high tuition as you said (especially given that it was only for foreigners , which I consider racist, and anyway the Conseil Constitutionnel recently found this measure unconstitutional). Parcoursup was a very bad d…

I'm curious, what's been going on with Parcoursup? (I don't read enough French to understand the discussions.)

Also, I'm not surprised that tuition for foreigners is a lever they are pulling. A government is responsible, first and foremost, to its own citizens. Racism? Really? What about "localism" or "separation of duties"?

Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not opposed to free college if 1) you're studying something with a proven ROI, and/or 2) you have a good academic history, and/or 3) you can't otherwise afford it. I think the idea that someone can get straight C's in highschool and get $50k a year to study art in college is not a good use of my tax dollars. I also don't think it's a good idea to give someone like me a free college education. I make $400k a year.…

> I think the idea that someone can get straight C's in highschool and get $50k a year to study art in college is not a good use of my tax dollars. What if that person ends up being successful in that field ? Should we only have the kids of the rich do arts ? That seems to be what's going on in the US and you see the devastating cultural result. > Additionally, I think students should have SOME Skin in the Game You h…

> Trust me, if they're focused on reducing costs, they won't cost 2.5k a month.

They don't cost 2.5k a month, and they aren't swanky broom closets. The average is ~1k, cheaper if you live with more people; this is below Palo Alto rent, mind you.

I believe the Stanford dorm experience is way better than that of most American institutions. For starters, every undergrad is basically guaranteed housing for the entirety of their college education, so no one is unwillingly ejected from university housing and forced to rent elsewhere (which is more expensive, as I already pointed out).

Not sure why gp decided to throw some random defamation at Stanford (might have been exaggerating to make a point, but it's not at all clear from the writing).

Disclosure: Stanford alum.

Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#68
post #45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First we do not agree on free education. I believe that's a good thing. Now, what Macron's government did wrong with research and higher education is: literally everything they did about it. The switch to high tuition as you said (especially given that it was only for foreigners , which I consider racist, and anyway the Conseil Constitutionnel recently found this measure unconstitutional). Parcoursup was a very bad d…

Foreigners aren't a "race", what are you saying. The proper definition of foreigner in this context is: never paid any taxes and most likely will not later. If foreigners in China, Chile or Uganda start paying french taxes, I'll follow you. On raising in the Shanghai index, it's bullshit only if you don't want to compete. Sure the metrics can be discussed but the impact of the low rank is very much here: top research…

> If foreigners in China, Chile or Uganda start paying french taxes, I'll follow you.

As a non-french national living in France since 2011, I don't follow you. I'm paying the same taxes as my french colleagues, and I'm very happy about that.

Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#69
post #22
post #3

Not just a mathematician but a Fields medal winner. The current mayor of Paris is also an interesting person, being a Spanish-born woman from a working class family. She has made huge strides in the greenification of Paris: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/05/world/europe/paris-anne-h...

Current mayor is hated by a lot of Parisians because of the "greenification of Paris" as you call it. She closed a few roads and made them pedestrian-only; that was not well received by a number of people.

> She closed a few roads and made them pedestrian-only; that was not well received by a number of people.

And it has been very well-received by a larger number of people, I guess. As for me, I would make the whole city pedestrian-only. Clarification: I live in banlieue and take the RER-B every day.

Re: Cédric Villani: mathematician challenging to be Paris mayor

#70
post #45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First we do not agree on free education. I believe that's a good thing. Now, what Macron's government did wrong with research and higher education is: literally everything they did about it. The switch to high tuition as you said (especially given that it was only for foreigners , which I consider racist, and anyway the Conseil Constitutionnel recently found this measure unconstitutional). Parcoursup was a very bad d…

Foreigners aren't a "race", what are you saying. The proper definition of foreigner in this context is: never paid any taxes and most likely will not later. If foreigners in China, Chile or Uganda start paying french taxes, I'll follow you. On raising in the Shanghai index, it's bullshit only if you don't want to compete. Sure the metrics can be discussed but the impact of the low rank is very much here: top research…

Are you sure you know what racism is? Racism isn't about race. Otherwise it wouldn't exist: there is only one human race. Racism is about culturally perceived race. The vast majority of the people who are affected by this measure come from North Africa. You know, French ex-colonies. So yes, it was a racist move in my opinion.

Concerning Shanghai index: what if I don't want to compete? The model of small French universities was good enough even for elitist standards such as international awards. It produced as much Medal Fields as the entire US system. It produced a lot of Nobel Prizes in a variety of disciplines. And most of them will tell you: in the current system where they would have had to spend months and months each year to look for funding instead of doing actual research, where they would have had a series of short term contracts working on different projects in their early career, and then would be forced to recruit collaborators on the same kind of short term contracts, they simply wouldn't have been able to conduct the research that lead them to the award.

Finally, I think you should pay attention to what it seems you don't want to hear when you listen to "grumpy french rambles". Your analysis is ridiculous. It's not the problems that are denied, it's wrong solutions. Take Parcoursup as an example. The problem is: there are more and more students coming to universities due to a baby boom starting in 2000, and there is not enough places at universities to have them. It's not like it wasn't easy to see it coming. Those kids went through the whole school system before arriving at uni. But instead of preparing for it by recruiting more professors, by building new universities if necessary (or at least new buildings), the governments decided to just wait and let the situation rot. Once it was a mess, they used it to push their political agenda of adding a selection step to enter university in addition to the one we already have which is the Baccalauréat. The new thing is: this selection step is not Nation-wide, it's done with varying criterion (which are typically not known by candidates) uni by uni, department by department. In addition to that the Parcoursup platform which runs all that is an algorithmic mess leading to deadlock (like a candidate A who prefers uni X over Y and a candidate B who prefers uni Y over X but uni X ranks B before A and uni Y A before B so A and B both wait to see if a spot will be freed at their most wanted uni but they depend on the other first giving up their place there, which won't happen because they don't know that they can safely do that) all that because they imposed stupid design conditions just so it is different from the previous system which used Gale-Shapley algorithm to solve these situations…

So sorry but no, it's not that it's wrong to "adapt and trying and reverting if it doesn't work". It's just plain wrong to do stupid things that do not solve the actual problems, especially when we can know in advance that they won't. I'm absolutely not for doing nothing (although in the Parcoursup case, nothing would have been better), I'm for doing what is actually necessary to solve problems that exists.

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