Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says • Hacker News Board

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#241

Post by rtkwe » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:56 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #84

metalliqaz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the Panama Papers still has it beat.

I feel ike for that Americans feel like temporarily embarrassed millionaires, but not necessarily temporarily embarrassed underage sex traffickers .

I think it's more that a lot of the American mythos and our story about ourselves is centered around a combination of individualism and meritocracy, but in a backwards sense where success is kind of assumed to be a sign of merit be it skill, luck, or pluck. That twists the idea of fairness by removing all the collective work and often government work that went into enabling any given business to succeed and thrive.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#242

Post by kiliantics » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

There are already lots of people investigating this independently and a lot of information has been uncovered. I can recommend a podcast that has really good research and is also a very entertaining listen:

https://soundcloud.com/trueanonpod

Plenty of crackpot theories abound of course, but the hosts here try to piece things together that are based in fact to get a more plausible understanding of the course of events.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#243

Post by droithomme » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

eesmith wrote: post #185

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

Martin Luther King Jr. was almost certainly more important. He was jailed many times, and wrote Letter from Birmingham Jail from one.

> wrote Letter from Birmingham Jail

And it's a great letter. Of interest, it's extremely similar to Civil Disobedience which is a letter Thoreau wrote from jail, and of which King possessed a copy of at the time he wrote his own letter. Related, Gandi carried a copy of Civil Disobedience with him at all times. Thoreau's rejection of US taxing authority was far more influential than most realize, leading to cascading revolutions throughout the 20th century.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#244

Post by jermaustin1 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

aphextim wrote: post #215

ethelward wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take it the other way around and assume it was a murder. > would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Not being able to do that while in high-security confinment. > And what stops the victims of naming names now? Not wanting to die. > what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying? The only way to be sure he would not talk is to definitely prevent him from talking.…

It also sends a clear message to anyone who may know information to keep their mouth shut. It basically says, "Yeah you can be put on 24/7 security, in a prison cell watched by rotating armed guards and we will still find a way to disable the cameras, get the guards away from you cell, and murder you."

Were cameras disabled???

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#245

Post by zzzcpan » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

dnate wrote: post #239

remarkEon wrote: post #151

If Epstein was about to testify against the Mob and not about expose wealthy elites and politicians I doubt any of you in this thread would discount, at all, that he was “whacked”. There’s something really gross about how his proximity to power that we, ostensibly, “like” is decreasing our collective likelihood to state the obvious.

I am shocked as well how many people in this thread seem to argue that this was not murder. It is ridiculously obvious. Occams razor cleanly shaves off the option that this was in fact a very convenient suicide

If you know a bit of background on how these things work, it is also an obvious intelligence agency level murder, not just someone hiring someone to kill him.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#246

Post by joe_the_user » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:05 PM UTC

cc81 wrote: post #166

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

What if it just was a suicide? If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before? And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

I don't have information that would prove Epstein's death wasn't suicide. Given he was on suicide watch earlier, that doesn't matter much to the situation of those with power acting to conveniently dispose of him.

The Epstein case could still be pursued. But when the government disposes of the star witness, the average person quite reasonably tends to doubt the state is going to give satisfaction, plus the media-driving focus of attention is gone.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#247

Post by mistermann » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:08 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #79

rdtsc wrote: post #69

I don't know if he killed himself or not, but it sure looks suspicious. The expectation is that there would be a flurry of investigative journalism lasting perhaps months, by different media organizations trying to uncover how he got his money, who flew to his island, or other properties, how many victims he had, interview with his house keepers, lawyers, Ghislaine Maxwell etc. But except for very few news items, the…

It looks suspicious, true, but it inconveniently looks suspicious along precisely the axes that one could expect from simple prison negligence, which is rife in the American systems. This is a real "horses and zebras" situation.

Prison negligence seems unconnected from investigative journalism....why is no one interested in Epstein's crimes?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#248

Post by code_duck » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:08 PM UTC

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #114

code_duck wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epstein's ability to carry in his activities with near impunity during his life seems even more shocking to me. Pretty much everyone knew what this guy was doing for decades.

In the old country, there is a concept of krysha, which technically refers to protection paid to government for protection ( not unlike mafia ), but, for example, in Russia, referred to money paid for protection to the security apparatus. I find it difficult to believe Epstein had no protectors. Natually, now nonone really knew the guy.

There's some speculation that he maintained his operational security, such as it was, through the threat of exposure or blackmail. That is, he brought prominent and powerful people into his fold, and then he had power over them. It's similar to how spy organizations intentionally place people in compromising situations, like hiring prostitutes for them, and record it on video.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#249

Post by blotter_paper » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:10 PM UTC

cc81 wrote: post #175

blotter_paper wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He supposedly tried to kill himself 18 days prior, and he was a witness who could potentially spill the beans on a bunch of wealthy kid fucks (and whoever had blackmail against them, if Epstein wasn't the ultimate top of this pedo pyramid). Yes, not monitoring the arrested billionaire pedophile who had been fucking kids with other billionaires and political figures who control the country, right after a first "suicid…

So why didn't Epstein arrange so any attempt on his life would result on all the dirt on people being sent out? Why didn't Epstein tell the prosecution "Holy fuck, people are trying to kill me, I want a protection and a deal and I will tell on everyone" after the first attempt?

I don't know how intelligent Epstein was or how much he knew. It's possible that those CDs they took from his locked safe[0] were the only insurance policy he had:

> Federal agents who searched Epstein's $77 million Upper East Side townhouse in Manhattan also found "in a locked safe ... compact discs with hand-written labels including the following: 'Young [Name] + [Name],' 'Misc nudes 1,' and 'Girl pics nudes,' " according to a new court filing in Epstein's case.

I can't find anything about what was on those tapes, what names were actually written on them, if the were encrypted, or if any followup investigation is being done, but maybe my googlefu is just weak. He certainly could have hired somebody competent enough to write a dead man's switch which would release the files if he didn't run a script every X months, but only if he was intelligent and knowledgable enough to come up with that plan in the first place. He could have known that he had no undeniable evidence left in his hands. He could have taken the first attempt as a message, and thought that keeping his head low and shutting up was his best chance at avoiding further trouble. He could have understood his time was limited while also still supporting the greater mission of the blackmail plot and not being willing to blow the cover on his handlers. These are all speculations, I don't know exactly how the events played out. I'd even give the body-double crowd a ~5% chance of being right (but that's a crit fail on a d20; 5% isn't much). I do feel comfortable saying that Epstein almost certainly photographed a former President raping a child, which screams "state actor blackmail," and it seems highly unlikely to me that such a man wasn't being watched by the TLAs unless they were purposefully turning a blind eye.

[0]: https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/07/08/jeffrey-epstein-called-s...

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#250

Post by rubbingalcohol » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 8:10 PM UTC

jermaustin1 wrote: post #244

aphextim wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also sends a clear message to anyone who may know information to keep their mouth shut. It basically says, "Yeah you can be put on 24/7 security, in a prison cell watched by rotating armed guards and we will still find a way to disable the cameras, get the guards away from you cell, and murder you."

Were cameras disabled???

Yes, both cameras that watched the cell and hallway outside it had "technical difficulties" and there was no recoverable footage around the time of Epstein's death.