Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says • Hacker News Board

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#171

Post by x220 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

dorkwood wrote: post #87

x220 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bribe the two guards with cash. Threaten to kill them and their families if they talk. It's pretty straightforward. Most people think that they are good people and would do the right thing in this situation, even though most people have no reason whatsoever to believe that they would act morally right if it became a serious sacrifice.

I’m not the parent commenter, but even this seems less straightforward than you’re making out. For example, how do you know which guards are assigned to Epstein’s cell, and how do you get in contact with them? Is it only one guard, or are there several in rotation? Where do you get this information? Once they accept your bribe, how do you get the money to them? I’m just thinking about the logistics of the situation.…

Someone with a background in national intelligence would be very proficient at doing all of this.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#172

Post by caseysoftware » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:48 PM UTC

EasyTiger_ wrote: post #159

commandlinefan wrote: post #143

When Edward Snowden “revealed” that the NSA had been spying on us for decades, I was shocked that anybody was shocked. After all, we’ve known that for a long time - people had been SAYING that for a long time. I realized after the Snowden leaks that most people actually thought they were joking when they said that the NSA was spying on all of us: “har har, as if that could ever happen”. It’s become increasingly clear…

People who thought this were widely scorned as “conspiracy theorists”.

Too many "conspiracy theories" have come out as true lately.

The latest was the satanic child abuse thing from the 80s that was just un-debunked from the Finders release.

We have have reached the point where it's worth looking at the "debunked" conspiracy theories with a new, critical eye.. which is all kinds of disturbing.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#173

Post by x220 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:49 PM UTC

grawprog wrote: post #57

x220 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bribe the two guards with cash. Threaten to kill them and their families if they talk. It's pretty straightforward. Most people think that they are good people and would do the right thing in this situation, even though most people have no reason whatsoever to believe that they would act morally right if it became a serious sacrifice.

>Most people think that they are good people and would do the right thing in this situation, Nope, straight up, some people come up to me, bribe me and threaten me or my family so they can kill a pedophile and I wouldn't hesitate for a second. I'd hand them the keys and walk away.

I think it's good that you admit this. You're less likely to put yourself in a situation where you could do bad things.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#174

Post by mistermann » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:51 PM UTC

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

> Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

I see very little sign of this. On the contrary, basically anywhere I look I see nothing but rabid enthusiasm for the latest Russia boogeyman story, and utter disdain for any idea that things may not be quite as we're told by the government and media.

I suspect the only reason there happens to be any interest in this story is that it involves children. Considering how relatively carefree the public seems to be on this story, when usually any story involving children and sex results in widespread hysteria and disgust, I think whoever is behind the memory holing of this story is probably feeling pretty comfortable with their ability to control people's perception of reality.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#175

Post by cc81 » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

blotter_paper wrote: post #115

dannypgh wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but surely it's also the case that successful suicide is more likely when someone is taken off of suicide watch, no? Citing this as evidence of malicious intent seems like a reach.

He supposedly tried to kill himself 18 days prior, and he was a witness who could potentially spill the beans on a bunch of wealthy kid fucks (and whoever had blackmail against them, if Epstein wasn't the ultimate top of this pedo pyramid). Yes, not monitoring the arrested billionaire pedophile who had been fucking kids with other billionaires and political figures who control the country, right after a first "suicid…

So why didn't Epstein arrange so any attempt on his life would result on all the dirt on people being sent out?

Why didn't Epstein tell the prosecution "Holy fuck, people are trying to kill me, I want a protection and a deal and I will tell on everyone" after the first attempt?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#176

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

rdtsc wrote: post #69

I don't know if he killed himself or not, but it sure looks suspicious. The expectation is that there would be a flurry of investigative journalism lasting perhaps months, by different media organizations trying to uncover how he got his money, who flew to his island, or other properties, how many victims he had, interview with his house keepers, lawyers, Ghislaine Maxwell etc. But except for very few news items, the…

> but that some paramedic or bystander took a picture of Epstein's body as it was wheeled out and posted it on 4chan. And how it was an egregious violation of HIPPA and FDNY should look into investigating that

Apropos of all the other things going on in this case - which lets be honest, were getting plenty of news play - why is this article odd?

Because, as a paramedic - fuck whomever did that. I don't care who it is, that is one of the most unprofessional and unethical things we can do. I teach new EMTs and paramedics and we talk about the huge amount of trust and access into the most intimate, worst moments of people's lives, and that's because we have built up this culture of being able to be entrusted to do this.

Whether you're giving care to someone bitten by a canine unit after they were found in the woods after an alleged rape, or to a drunk driver who t-boned your ambulance when you had a patient inside, and so on and so forth, if you can't disconnect your personal passion or despising of someone from your ability to provide medical care, you need to not be in this profession. And furthermore, if you see it not just as an opportunity to be unprofessional but to make a buck / publicity out of an abuse of trust, then even more, get out.

All firefighters and paramedics are certainly not perfect, but there is also a huge stock in trying to maintain the reputation we have - it's what allows people to tell me what drugs they've taken, etc., or whether there's a chance of pregnancy, when otherwise they might not.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#177

Post by LinuxBender » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:52 PM UTC

EasyTiger_ wrote: post #159

commandlinefan wrote: post #143

When Edward Snowden “revealed” that the NSA had been spying on us for decades, I was shocked that anybody was shocked. After all, we’ve known that for a long time - people had been SAYING that for a long time. I realized after the Snowden leaks that most people actually thought they were joking when they said that the NSA was spying on all of us: “har har, as if that could ever happen”. It’s become increasingly clear…

People who thought this were widely scorned as “conspiracy theorists”.

I pay close attention to the "nutters" and "conspiracy theorists". A great way to hide something big in plain sight is to let someone that is unstable see 1/8th of your secret. They will conflate other things into it and sound totally loony, thus invalidating any discussion about your evil plans by anyone, as they will be associated with the unstable person.

I am not going to name names, as that would be inappropriate, but there are some popular public figures that make video and news streams, that have sounded totally loony for decades and yet, turned out to be mostly right or in some cases, spot on. They just conveyed the message poorly.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#178

Post by slimed » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:53 PM UTC

messick wrote: post #158

542458 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> killed himself in a cell and unit where suicide is made a practical impossibility Ken White (famous-ish lawyer and notable internet personality) puts it this way: "But your assessment of plausibility is based on your assumptions about how the system works. Those assumptions are, mostly, wrong — naive Dick-Wolf-level law-enforcement-are-competent-good-guys stuff". Prisons, particularly american prisons, are full of…

Yeah the shorter version of Ken "Popehat" White's thoughts are: middle class white people have no fucking idea how shitty the justice system is. And it's true, based on the replies to this post. No one who says Epstein's suicide was a "practical impossibility" has been anywhere near the justice system. They definitely don't know anyone who has been on the prisoner side of it.

You're acting like Epstein was just another prisoner.

People who know a thing or two about the justice system will explain to you how differently high profile prisoners like Epstein are treated.

But what could I, a middle class white person, know about the subject?

Are you aware that some of us are former prisoners as well?

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#179

Post by micmil » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

kpU8efre7r wrote: post #74

This guy isn't even the one who did the autopsy. Why do we care what he says?

You seem to have no clue how these things work.

First of all, he was in fact there for the autopsy. The fact that he did not perform it is irrelevant although it doesn't matter whether he was there or not. The entire point of an autopsy is to create a record of evidence that can be examined at a later time.

Coroner's reports are made available to those who need them. This will include photographs of the procedure as well as written (and sometimes recorded, either voice or video) documentation of the findings. Sometimes these findings are incorrect and only noticed in later reexamination.

This happens fairly regularly and it's not uncommon for a ruling on cause of death to be changed at a later time as new evidence is presented.

Seriously, your stupid question is like asking why we care that the homicide detective wrote down what someone else saw. I mean he wasn't there either but I don't see you questioning basic police procedure and evidence collection.

Re: Epstein's injuries look more like murder than suicide, noted pathologist says

#180

Post by mistermann » Wed, Oct 30, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

cc81 wrote: post #166

moltensodium wrote: post #107

Yeah, outside of Lee Harvey Oswald this guy was the most important prisoner in the history of the USA. The fact that he just "suicided" in prison and we're all supposed to move on and share links about suicide awareness is utter nonsense. If the corporate media doesn't get to the bottom of this then someone else will, it's just a matter of time. Everyone is so tired of being lied to by authority figures.

What if it just was a suicide? If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death? Especially if there was a failed murder attempt just weeks before? And what stops the victims of naming names now? And what would have stopped Epstein of just not talking and just denying?

> If he had dirt on people would he not arrange so it would be sent out in case of his death?

Considering the circumstances, if you received information from Epstein, what would you do with it? Even if you were brave enough to risk your life in the service of justice, what authority would you even send it to?