Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 541 posts

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#71

Post by joking »

StavrosK wrote: post #61
joking wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They misused the political institutions for their benefit and pushed their agenda even when they have been warned several times of the penal consequences. There can be disagreement with the conviction time, but they are not innocents.

What is their agenda? Given that a large part of a country wants secession, isn't it only democratic to vote on it?

that's a large simplification of the problem. ¿Can Barcelona where people is less independent secede from the rural Catalonia? ¿Can the rich secede from the poor? As a matter of the actual law, only all the Spaniards can vote for a change like that, but Catalonians will never accept such thing because they will never be able to convince that the separation of Catalonia is a good thing for both sides.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#72

Post by iagovar »

zozbot234 wrote: post #39
pmarin wrote: post #12

The title is intentionally misleading. It's not the government but the judicial authorities, in Spain we have distribution of power. From the take down notice: > In Spain, judicial authorities are responsible for the supervision and control of websites in order to prevent the dissemination of criminal content as it is specified in the article 35 of our Law 34/2002 and the article 13 of our Criminal Procedure Code.

The takedown notice was sent directly by the Spanish paramilitary, but it's supposed to have a court order attached to it, and that would be issued by an independent judiciary. So you're half-right - a bit weird, overall.

> Spanish paramilitary,

Guardia Civil is really a police force like the french Gendarmerie, seen it described as paramilitary is a bit odd, tbh.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#73

Post by StavrosK »

ricardbejarano wrote: post #65
StavrosK wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's true, and neither side is handling this very well. The government could have let the referendum happen but campaign against it, appeasing the people who wanted a democratic vote but still winning. Instead, they went full suppression and made themselves look much worse.

The thing is, the government can't let a "comunidad autonoma" organize a binding referendum about a region's secession of Spain, because that would put the region's sovereignty on the region's people, and that's against the Spanish constitution (art. 1.2, the sovereignty of the entire Spanish territory is of all Spanish citizens). That also infringes Spanish constitution's 2nd art., "the Constitution is fundamented a…

Fair enough, but they could still have campaigned against secession and declared any referendum void. They probably could have managed it better than send armed police to confiscate the ballot boxes.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#74

Post by komarrian »

banjodeluxe wrote: post #35

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

I think you are leaving out two important parts of this conflict.

* The police brutality: Spanish police have been clashing with protestors disregarding their own operational guides and using excessive force and have been asked by multiple times to deescalete tensions. You can read more about this here: https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/10/spain-authori...

* Judiciary repression: Two leaders of civic organizations, not politicians, have been handed down sentences of 9 years for sedition which is what sparked this protest.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#75

Post by zozbot234 »

iagovar wrote: post #62
banjodeluxe wrote: post #35

For a bit of context I'll leave my two cents here trying to be as objective as possible, leaving politics out of it as much as I can. Following the judge's veredict of the Catalan politicians who coordinated the "proces", or series of political movements to attempt to secede Catalonia from Spain; demonstrations have arisen within Catalonia protesting said judgement - the politicians were essentially deemed as conspir…

IMO the accusation of terrorism is too much, but honestly some of the actions are worrying. I'm against the Catalonian independence, so everyone knows where I'm coming from, but I understand why so many Catalonians are angry and protest for. But I also understand what different police forces are facing. You get actions like putting trees and blocks of concrete on railroads, making it very dangerous for passengers and…

> You get actions like putting trees and blocks of concrete on railroads, making it very dangerous for passengers and workers.

There are laws against doing such things on the books, I'd assume - even if the motive were "just" to block railway traffic. The government should focus on investigating those responsible. It's not at all clear that blocking an app that might have countless legitimate, non-violent uses is the right choice.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#76

Post by zentropia »

enriquto wrote: post #16
philipwhiuk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anyone in Spain got any context on TD and the current political context?

There's a massive ongoing police operation to suppress the catalan independence movement. The spanish paramilitary is trying to take down the source code of an app that people use to coordinate peaceful demonstrations. They say that this is to "fight terrorism" which is ridiculous, albeit there are already several people preemptively incarcerated, falsely accused of terrorism (still waiting for a trial).

They don't try to supress catalan independence, but violence. People on jail are there because they set fires, throw stones to police or hold some explosive substances.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#77

Post by eridan2 »

swebs wrote: post #47
kzrdude wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is often understood to be the executive part, somewhat like 'administration', I don't know if there is a better word to use.

Not in the English speaking world at least. "Government" is an umbrella term which includes the legislature, executive, and judiciary.

https://www.gov.uk/government/how-government-works In the UK, the Prime Minister leads the government with the support of the Cabinet and ministers

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#78

Post by Schiphol »

Some commentators are pointing out, not implausibly imho, that the Spanish government is pushing the terrorism accusation against the pro-secession movement as a way to tap into terrorism-related extradition agreements in Europe. Right now there are a few Catalonian political exiles in Belgium and other countries.

By the way, Tsunami Democràtic explicitly rejects violent action: https://tsunamidemocratic.github.io/noviolencia.html

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#79

Post by JaumeGreen »

jarfil wrote: post #46
komarrian wrote: post #2

This is outrageous "Tsunami Democratic" has not coordinated any terrorist attack nor has an attack taken place in Spain... They are abusing antiterrorist laws to quash peaceful protests and GitHub is complying.

"Peaceful" does not mean destroying the streets, setting cars on fire, throwing incendiary devices at the cops, or bullying those who don't agree with you.

There are multiple organizations, each preparing their own mobilizations. Tsunami has only launched (AFAIK) the airport blockade.

There are the CDRs, PicnicxRepublica, Omnium, ANC,... And probably many more.

In fact there are suspicions about tsunami not being "good enough" by some independentists.

Don't attribute to one what comes from another.

Re: Spanish government orders GitHub to take down Tsunami Democràtic repository

#80

Post by zentropia »

komarrian wrote: post #2

This is outrageous "Tsunami Democratic" has not coordinated any terrorist attack nor has an attack taken place in Spain... They are abusing antiterrorist laws to quash peaceful protests and GitHub is complying.

At least they ordered to occupy the airport and that alone is a serious offense.
Post reply on HN