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Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

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201–210 of 285 posts

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#201
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess was that it was just seen as easier to drop in a third party analytics component in as opposed to doing via their own backend.

years ago, at a previous employer of mine, one of the IT staff members was giving a presentation on an internal website/app they created for some widely used business function (i don't recall exactly) and they were rather proud of the fact that they tied in Google Analytics so that they could get a better view on how people were using the site. I expect that a lot of other companies are also doing this to themselves.…

Every project I've ever worked on has used analytics; it's super useful.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#202
post #9

This comment, from the CFO, is particularly nasty: https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab/merge_requests/14182#no...

You may or may not agree with that comment, but it is not nasty. What is nasty, on the other hand, is the vitriolic reaction to it. So far I count 16 "middle finger" emojis, including one with the subtitle "incompentent or malicious CFO". In what world does a disagreement over the right level of telemetry justify this kind of behavior? It's mind-boggling to me how entitled and aggressive the open-source culture is al…

[deleted]

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#203

This is just the beginning, at some point, they will flip. Google was our darling, that could do no wrong. Just imagine, to be bold and say "Don't be evil!" And then, what happened? This is just a short term reaction to quiet down the noise, but their long term hand has been exposed. They are not going to do it, but note that nothing says they won't try to or do it again in the far future. What I really will like to…

What happened ? Google is still one of the better players around. They pulled out of DoD contracts etc. This site just hates it for every single thing..it's just group think now , majority of the general public still loves it.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#204
Is it possible to enforce american spelling ( especially in the title )? Behavior vs Behaviour?

HN is an american company and gitlab is an american company so people who participate here should use correct american spelling.

The gitlab post itself uses the correct spelling - behavior.

"In an effort to improve our user experience, we decided to implement user behavior tracking with both first and third-party technology"

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#205
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a difference between gitlab and gmail. People pay for gitlab while gmail is free. Google can easily declare "either you take it for what it is, or leave." Gitlab can't.

My understanding was that Gitlab wanted to collect your data to improve their product. Google is collecting your data to sell ads. I understand the reticence towards third party telemetry, but refusing basic interaction tracking for a product you pay for is just hurting yourself, even if you're already satisfied with the service. You don't go to the doctor for a checkup and then refuse bloodwork. Obviously there are…

Were people really arguing for removal of telemetry altogether? I would think that many of us are comfortable with aspects of tracking.

For me, the concern was the value of the content. It might as well have been my bank saying they were going to start embedding disqus threads.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#206
post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...developers care more about this stuff..." No, they only care when the tools they are using are targeted. Otherwise, they couldn't care less. We have tracking on websites and in apps on an industrial scale - built by developers in technology companies. We even have tracking of school kids courtesy of ChromeOS. When have developers ever shown any care about that? When have they ever spoken out about that? They're m…

If I had a guarantee from Gitlab that _they_ were scrubbing the data, I would have no problem. I get the sense they know what they're doing (naive, maybe) However, giving a third party script, potentially unvetted, access to the crown jewels of the company I work for? No fucking way. Different. Not a double standard.

They are tracking things anonymously at least in some places, judging by what I've read in the linked Gitlab issue tracker threads. The debacle started with someone higher up requesting to start recording user ID with that data, in order for the "growth team" to be able to do "experiments".

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#207
post #27

We received an apology email at the same time, well written, explaining what they did wrong, apologizing, promising to do a post-mortem, promising to not send to 3rd party trackers, and saying they did a mistake and waiting for feedbacks on the issue tracker. And with very little BS in the mail. Such level of transparency, of apologizing and clarity, especially written at the first person "I am truly sorry." is very…

What concerns me is how it got to the point of having to apologize in the first place. It implies a level of disconnect and and corporate group-think that is fundamentally misaligned with core customer expectation of what is in essence a community enabling system. How did Gitlab end up with a set of managers that ever thought this would fly ? They clearly were completely surprised by their customer's reaction - somet…

Still, it's worth something that they reversed course and apologized, where so many companies wouldn't do either.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telemetry still sucks. I don't want it, and it should never be opt-out.

Telemetry is necessary to be able to observe the system, and look for adverse impact. You should be more thoughtful to the people supporting the tools you use, because without telemetry they do a bad job keeping it working for you.

If anything, the deterioration of quality in most modern software is a proof that telemetry makes people do bad job at keeping software working for its users.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#209
post #105

I find the anti-telemetry attitude honestly kind of confusing. I mean, you know that the shops you go to know what products you're buying from them, right? Presumably those shops look at that data in aggregate when thinking about which products to stock. How is this any different? If you're transacting with someone, it's not possible to hide that transaction from them. Of course you should have the right to have that…

I'm hostile towards both on-line and meatspace telemetry alike. It's just it's much harder to opt out from the latter. When a store I frequent decides to be total assholes and install customer-tracking cameras, I can't even tell (and unfortunately, there's no legal requirement to inform about it; I hope it'll change in the future). And even if I could, like most people, I'm rather price-sensitive when bulk shopping. On-line, I can at least try to defeat most telemetry with content blockers and network filters.

> Of course you should have the right to have that data deleted, but that's different from saying it should never be collected at all.

Anything that GDPR forces to be opt-in (like this telemetry here) is essentially data that shouldn't be collected in the first place.

> Also, given that nearly all websites are using something like Google Analytics or similar (or several of these at once), the reaction and vitriol here just seems weirdly disproportionate.

There were couple compounding issues here, not the least of which was them wanting to deploy telemetry on self-hosted instances. On Gitlab.com, they can deploy analytics scripts to their heart's content; that's just being disrespectful. But self-hosting is something one does in big part to control the data flow, and pushing telemetry onto that kind of defeats the point (it's a real compliance issue for a lot of companies).

As others have said, just because many other people do something, doesn't mean it's good and you should do it too.

Re: Gitlab cancels plan on tracking user behavior on GitLab.com

#210
post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great for you. But please smoke outside so the rest of us don't have to deal with negatives (eg. smell if not health issues). (Hopefully you get the parallel: some of us consider it harmful, and the fact that you don't care or you actually enjoy it does not mean we should be subjected to it)

In the regards of smoking, sure its great for the non-smokers but its sucks for the rest of smokers.

It's really not too much to ask smokers to not externalize the health problems of their addiction to other people. On the contrary, a decent human being would not willingly expose non-smokers to cigarette smoke. Unfortunately, there's not enough decency around to outweight convenience, so it had to be turned into law.

As for telemetry, I can't find any reason one would willingly subject to it. But even if, that's why laws like GDPR don't ban it outright, just ask for it to be optional and opt-in.

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