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Tether: The Story So Far

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Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#211

Post by rolltiide »

vosper wrote: post #182
rolltiide wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the other open secret is that you just create a new identity in an isolated sub namespace you ring fence all the addresses in that space with Monero over VPN or TOR: Monero swapped to Bitcoin, Monero swapped to Ether, Monero swapped to Tether (ERC20/OMNI/TRC20), a general balance in Monero since merchants accept that too, and transact there. Swap back out to Monero if you need a withdrawal. Pencil pushers can track a…

> Monero swapped to Bitcoin, Monero swapped to Ether, Monero swapped to Tether Is there a way to do this without going through some central exchange? I thought I'd read that (eg) Shapeshift was now doing KYC/AML checks, so would you still get identified there?

Morphtoken

Bisq

XMR.to because your clearnet identity already owns Monero

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#212

Post by cycrutchfield »

jkiopire wrote: post #82
gamblor956 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is strong demand for any kind of vehicle which allows transferring value digitally outside of the traditional banking system. Crypto supporters have been saying this for a decade, but outside of money laundering, drug sales, and hodle profiteering, no such demand has been shown to exist. Of course the huge demand has been spotted by many others and now there are loads of these "stablecoins". Some are more regul…

> no such demand has been shown to exist. The success of companies like Square or Venmo show there is huge demand for an easy way to send money around. You will say that they are inside the traditional banking system, and that is true. But when using them it feels like they are not.

Ok, but if we have Square and Venmo, why do we need Bitcoin and Tether?

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#213

Post by nostrademons »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #203
nostrademons wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly a lot of the speculation - at least today - is actually a bet on disaster. Many wealthy individuals and institutions are buying Bitcoin as a hedge against currency collapse. It's not so much that they think Bitcoin will be worth more in the future: it's that they believe the U.S. dollar and all other financial assets will be worth less . (Or in some cases, it's just part of a hedge: the rest of the hedg…

I'm not sure I agree with you. What we constantly hear is exactly that, hedging against global economic collapse. But I see no strong evidence that in the face of such an event, Bitcoin's price should rise. What I see, instead, is a bet on this big speculation bubble to continue for another few years, hoping to cash out before it happens.

Like the original thread, I'm speaking descriptively, not normatively. People believe that in the event of a collapse, Bitcoin's value will rise. The evidence for that is a.) people say exactly that b.) people frequently compare Bitcoin to "digital gold", and gold has similar hedging properties c.) wealthy Bitcoin holders pay large sums of money for custodial services that store their private keys in nuclear-blast-resistant underground bunkers and d.) if they were hoping to cash out in the speculative bubble, they would've given up by now, with the current bear market lasting for nearly 2 years now.

Whether they're correct or not is a different matter, but correctness doesn't bear on their motivation for hodling. Nobody's going to know until the collapse comes or everybody gives up waiting, in which case either they're rich or dead.

Personally I think there's a certain sweet spot magnitude of a collapse where Bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency will be useful, and it's where the political and financial system has broken down yet infrastructure remains intact. In other words, you still have power and Internet, but no effective central government. Something like Hong Kong or the Soviet Union but not as serious as Venezuela or Syria. Less than that and people will just use $USD; more than that and guns & food will be more useful than Bitcoin. (I suspect that the same people who are buying lots of Bitcoin are also stocking up on guns & food, too, though.)

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#214

Post by ncmncm »

jcranmer wrote: post #91
lawn wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And all the U.S. had to do is make drugs illegal, and it would disappear. (Or not.) > other than the anonymous money flows Are you saying that anonymous money is immoral and should be made illegal, and in the process dismissing all use cases that benefit from anonymity? And no, cryptocurrencies are perfectly legal in most of the world.

I'm pointing out that anonymous money flows are already effectively illegal, given the KYC/AML laws. At some point, any Funny Money system you create has to interact with the fiat system so that people can actually do stuff like pay their utility bills, and if Funny Money is triggering compliance alarm bells, and at that point, well, read the article. Something else to point out is that just because a system is unsus…

In any case real estate is exempt from KYC/AML. That is supposed to be why Chinese people own so much American farmland and so many Canadian houses.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#215

Post by headsoup »

lawn wrote: post #115
tptacek wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You respond twice downthread that while Bitcoin may not be anonymous, Monero is. Do you then concede that anonymous payments are not a major use case for the non-anonymous Bitcoin protocol? Why then is Bitcoin so valuable?

Well, Bitcoin is good enough for these use cases even if it's only pseudo-anonymous. But I do agree that the current valuation of Bitcoin is to a very large part driven by speculation, and from the network effect. As some comments here point to, Monero isn't even widely known despite being technically superior in many ways.

So what value should Bitcoin have then?

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#216

Post by kristianov »

lawn wrote: post #70

> I have looked, quite a bit. I have not found a good use case yet I'm always surprised that intelligent and knowledgeable people claim this. You haven't even found a single use case? You don't think buying a VPN anonymously is a good use case? Or see the need for uncensorable donations? (Remember how the U.S. shut down Wikileak's PayPal donations when they exposed their war crimes?) Or that cryptocurrencies allow bu…

Well, I think someone need to check with the IRS re: these use cases.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#217

Post by tlb »

buildbuildbuild wrote: post #194
lawn wrote: post #70

> I have looked, quite a bit. I have not found a good use case yet I'm always surprised that intelligent and knowledgeable people claim this. You haven't even found a single use case? You don't think buying a VPN anonymously is a good use case? Or see the need for uncensorable donations? (Remember how the U.S. shut down Wikileak's PayPal donations when they exposed their war crimes?) Or that cryptocurrencies allow bu…

It’s easy to make these types of arguments when one’s never been unbanked, or tried living somewhere long term without yet having citizenship.

I'm not familiar with the intersection of these two groups: unbanked and bitcoiners. Can you tell us more about them? Why are they unbanked? How did they get into Bitcoin? How do they acquire and spend Bitcoin? What do they buy with it?

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#218

Post by ThrustVectoring »

mikekchar wrote: post #206
lawn wrote: post #70

> I have looked, quite a bit. I have not found a good use case yet I'm always surprised that intelligent and knowledgeable people claim this. You haven't even found a single use case? You don't think buying a VPN anonymously is a good use case? Or see the need for uncensorable donations? (Remember how the U.S. shut down Wikileak's PayPal donations when they exposed their war crimes?) Or that cryptocurrencies allow bu…

IMHO there is one killer feature for decentralised payment systems: it allows people who can not get a bank account with reasonable terms to make monetary transfers. People who are born into rich first world countries don't realise how difficult it can be. In many places in the world you can not get a bank account unless you have an address. You can not rent a place unless you can transfer money. You are stuck. Even…

>3) Most letting agencies wouldn't take cash

I don't know if there's something similar in the UK, but in the US you can buy a money order with cash from any Walmart for a couple bucks in fees and solve the "they don't take cash" issue that way.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#219

Post by austhrow743 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #31
repomies691 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is more about the general "conspiracy" tone of the article. It is like "OMG banks can create money, what a conspiracy" by some people who are surprised by the facts on how financial system works when they finally learn some basics. There is strong demand for any kind of vehicle which allows transferring value digitally outside of the traditional banking system. I don't think tether users trust tether because they…

There is strong demand for any kind of vehicle which allows transferring value digitally outside of the traditional banking system. Crypto supporters have been saying this for a decade, but outside of money laundering, drug sales, and hodle profiteering, no such demand has been shown to exist. Of course the huge demand has been spotted by many others and now there are loads of these "stablecoins". Some are more regul…

Yes if you exclude the primary uses of something, you will struggle to see a use for it. That's obvious.

Re: Tether: The Story So Far

#220

Post by CydeWeys »

pietjepuk88 wrote: post #160
lawn wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Cryptocurrencies aren't anonymous. Monero is. > They also don't eliminate payment processor risk Of course they don't magically solve all problems, but that doesn't make them useless. > I'm skeptical how many people in Venezuela saved their fortunes via Bitcoin et al I've read some article from people who did it, but I don't think it's common. The problem with leaving the country is, how do you take your assets wit…

Monero is unfortunately not really anonymous either in many common scenario's, like repeatedly sending payments to or from the same address. [0] It's definitely better than Bitcoin though, but far from anonymous. Overall I think that cryptocurrencies (and the internet overall) could use some better privacy strategies. Tor-like routing, no possibility of finger printing, etc. [0] https://slideslive.com/38911785/satosh…

You don't, as a best practice, repeatedly send payments to or from the same address in Bitcoin. So if you continue not doing so in Monero, you end up with much more anonymity.
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