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U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

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Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#71

Post by poof131 »

president wrote: post #20

It's about time that the US start standing up to China's unrestricted warfare [1]. It's amazing that most Americans don't realize that China views the US as an adversary and has been quietly waging a war against the West. Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare [2…

People were hoping that closer ties would open up China to democracy, that capitalism and democracy would go hand in hand. But it hasn’t happened and in fact, is going in reverse. The trend has been obvious for a long time. I remember reading books about the threat in the 90s.[1] In the military, China was the major adversary we trained against in the 2000s, not Russia. But the business opportunities helped mask the growing divide. It’s easy to hope for the best when profit is at stake and the outcome of cooperation (peace and trade) is so much better than the alternatives. But now people are being forced to choose between profits and values, the NBA is just one example.[2] It will take time but the tide has turned and many people will not be looked upon favorably by history, similarly to the Nazi sympathizers prior to WW2.[3] And it’s important to differentiate China and the Chinese people from the CCP. Both the CCP and their apologists in America would like to conflate the two. But Americans and the Chinese have fought together before and can hopefully (and peacefully) overcome the tyranny that currently afflicts the country.[4]

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Year-Rat-Clinton-Compromised-Security... [2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14-aUXlEac [3] https://time.com/5414055/american-nazi-sympathy-book/ [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Tigers

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#72

Post by seanmcdirmid »

Canada wrote: post #51
surge wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google 9 dash line Google belt and road initiative People are upset that China isn't honoring their agreement and are dismantling the democratic system and free speech HK is enjoying now, these are universal human rights. Rather than China learning from what made HK so prosperous, as they were for a while, the new leadership is heading back towards the old Maoism policies that lead to the massive starvation and famin…

To be fair, it is also the position of ROC that there is one China (and they are the legitimate authority of it)

The Taiwanese are hardly unified around those ideals of the ROC, many still see it as an invader even if they can now express those sentiments at the ballot box.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#73

Post by seanmcdirmid »

account73466 wrote: post #58

Many of my scientific works were plagiarized by Chinese researchers. However, I still don't buy the hate on China that is dominant in media and here on Hacker News. Basically, i) the US wants to forbid other countries to have a chance to win in pure capitalistic games. Thus, it will block strong investors from certain countries but let itself to invest in the same countries. ii) the US (e.g., agencies and private fir…

> i) the US wants to forbid other countries to have a chance to win in pure capitalistic games. Thus, it will block strong investors from certain countries but let itself to invest in the same countries.

Don’t you mean China instead of the US? They invest in America what they won’t let America invest in China, especially in tech. China is hardly an open market itself.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#74

Post by yourbandsucks »

president wrote: post #52
oitudgiyters wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mao tried to have Deng killed, and Xi was sent to a re-education camp during that time. I’m not sure “they” is the correct term here.

I think OP meant "they" in reference to the CCP kleptocracy more broadly

But you and they are calling maoism and dengism "basically the same thing". That's about half a degree from calling communism and capitalism the same thing. With Chinese characteristics for both, of course.

Anybody who knew China would know exactly why I picked 40 years. It's 2 very different governments.

So I get that you'd consider them "the enemy" in both cases but could this be a teachable moment?

How has America typically done when we wade into shit we don't understand, perfectly convinced that we're the good guys?

How has it typically worked out for the 'liberated'?

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#75

Post by dtwest »

account73466 wrote: post #58

Many of my scientific works were plagiarized by Chinese researchers. However, I still don't buy the hate on China that is dominant in media and here on Hacker News. Basically, i) the US wants to forbid other countries to have a chance to win in pure capitalistic games. Thus, it will block strong investors from certain countries but let itself to invest in the same countries. ii) the US (e.g., agencies and private fir…

There are no "pure" capitalistic games being played. The US and China interfere to varying degrees.

Talking about slavery in this context is also ridiculous.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#76

Post by donw »

knzhou wrote: post #64
50656E6973 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. Perhaps it's because Big Tech is full of people who favor Chinese ideals over Western Enlightenment/American ideals, such as: -Group identity over individuality -Mass tracking/surveillance over privacy -Cenorship over free speech -State control/power over self defense

I have always wondered what people mean by "Chinese ideals". As a Chinese person myself, all 4 of your options are things that I oppose. I find myself consistently on the side of individuality, privacy, free speech, and self defense, when arguing against Americans that disagree. In fact I'm doing that right now in another thread in the process of defending yet another undefendable scoundrel, Facebook. Do you actually…

Not intending to speak for others, but I believe that the original poster intended "ideals as practiced by the CCP" (e.g., Cultural Revolution, Red Guards, etc), and it sounds to me like you are espousing the Chinese culture of the 1911 revolution, which does indeed support the rights of individuality, privacy, free speech, and self defense.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#77

Post by Kalium »

scilro wrote: post #55
Canada wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, some very bad things have happened. Not excusing that. But also things have worked out really really well for a lot of countries the US has imposed its will on. Countries it went to war with and could have utterly raped and plundered without resistance or really any objection. You think China is going to do better? Will it be more fair? The regime in China is willing to hurt anyone who even debates its track re…

>You think China is going to do better? Well... why wouldn't they? China since the time of Deng has been acutely aware of the risk of becoming an imperialist power[1]. Even if they have arguably crossed that line at some points (the South China Sea...), they're clearly attempting to take a markedly alternative path to becoming a superpower. I think the media tends to portray individuals in the Chinese government as u…

The Chinese government has already re-created concentration camps for religious and ethnic minorities. We might stand to benefit by considering if those with cynical views might have, in this case, found a measure of wisdom.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#78

Post by microcolonel »

oitudgiyters wrote: post #47
president wrote: post #20

It's about time that the US start standing up to China's unrestricted warfare [1]. It's amazing that most Americans don't realize that China views the US as an adversary and has been quietly waging a war against the West. Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare [2…

What I don’t understand is how we got into this situation in the first place. We know how powerful the US intelligence agencies are. The fact that the CIA has been able to install leaders in previously hostile governments shows their competence. Aside from Iran, most of their operations were successful. Even in their missteps, they were able to limit its influence in the region. So how did it come to this? Why does i…

> What I don’t understand is how we got into this situation in the first place.

Some Americans love to watch America suffer, because it makes them feel better about themselves; a similar thing to the British intellectuals who celebrated every British loss and defeat of the second world war, though they would not enjoy a total defeat.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#79

Post by yourbandsucks »

surge wrote: post #45
yourbandsucks wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we check the record? Post-WW2? Countries the US has invaded THAT BORDER CHINA: 2 Countries China has invaded, period: We have them 80% surrounded at sea between Korea, Japan, Taiwan and the Phillipines. People are really upset that they still control former-imperial-possession HK and have a remaining outlet. And they're the imperialists?

Google 9 dash line Google belt and road initiative People are upset that China isn't honoring their agreement and are dismantling the democratic system and free speech HK is enjoying now, these are universal human rights. Rather than China learning from what made HK so prosperous, as they were for a while, the new leadership is heading back towards the old Maoism policies that lead to the massive starvation and famin…

Believe it or not, the average Chinese has a better grasp of their recent history than the average HN reader.

How come nobody cared about 'universal human rights' for HK residents until it was a way to kneecap China? Again, check the record: 95 years of colonialism with less rights than they have now. They got their limited democracy in the last few years of British rule. Thatcher and Reagan never gave a shit.

Watch their hands, not their mouths, that goes for all politicians.

Xi has a lot of problems in general on the rights front, he's moving things in the wrong direction, but we have no leg to stand on regarding HK.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#80

Post by m0zg »

jbay808 wrote: post #67
m0zg wrote: post #23

Should also heighten scrutiny on export of advanced lithography, AI, material science, etc, to countries which are known for industrial espionage.

Seems like you'll want to petition the Dutch, Japanese, and Taiwanese governments to take some kind of action, then.

They should consider that too, yes. Taiwan especially. South Korea, too has advanced lithography capabilities, so add it to the list. China doesn't have domestic lithography beyond 28nm IIRC. Which, to be clear, is not a joke either, but it's 1/16th the density of the state of the art.
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