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U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

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Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#61

Post by Causality1 »

oitudgiyters wrote: post #47
president wrote: post #20

It's about time that the US start standing up to China's unrestricted warfare [1]. It's amazing that most Americans don't realize that China views the US as an adversary and has been quietly waging a war against the West. Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare [2…

What I don’t understand is how we got into this situation in the first place. We know how powerful the US intelligence agencies are. The fact that the CIA has been able to install leaders in previously hostile governments shows their competence. Aside from Iran, most of their operations were successful. Even in their missteps, they were able to limit its influence in the region. So how did it come to this? Why does i…

Simply put, defense isn't sexy. It's always easy to find people who want to discover a way to, for example, make foreign centrifuges blow themselves up. It's less easy to find people who want to spend eight hours a day preventing, say, ignorant government employees from clicking every link that shows up in their e-mail. Infiltrating a foreign telecom provider to use its smartphone OS update mechanism to hijack the phone of its head of state's wife and record secret conversations is sexy. Monitoring the behavior of apps installed on your own personnel's phones for potential hostile behavior is not sexy. Building a 1.5 trillion dollar fighter jet is sexy. Stopping China from repeatedly stealing all the project files is not.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#62

Post by zachguo »

oitudgiyters wrote: post #47
president wrote: post #20

It's about time that the US start standing up to China's unrestricted warfare [1]. It's amazing that most Americans don't realize that China views the US as an adversary and has been quietly waging a war against the West. Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare [2…

What I don’t understand is how we got into this situation in the first place. We know how powerful the US intelligence agencies are. The fact that the CIA has been able to install leaders in previously hostile governments shows their competence. Aside from Iran, most of their operations were successful. Even in their missteps, they were able to limit its influence in the region. So how did it come to this? Why does i…

They tried but failed. Now, most are done through NED and psyops, and it's pretty successful in terms of media manipulation.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#63

Post by 50656E6973 »

rhizome wrote: post #60
50656E6973 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. Perhaps it's because Big Tech is full of people who favor Chinese ideals over Western Enlightenment/American ideals, such as: -Group identity over individuality -Mass tracking/surveillance over privacy -Cenorship over free speech -State control/power over self defense

Those aren't non-Western ideals, lots of people in all countries strive to achieve power either via the imposition or in order to impose those qualities on their particular citizenry. tl;dr: your category error invalidates your entire point.

Using large geographic/national boundaries to generalize ideological categories is of course inherently erroneous to a degree; it's like the Zen Buddhist teaching of "a finger pointing at the moon". You seem to be getting hung up on the finger.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#64

Post by knzhou »

50656E6973 wrote: post #56
president wrote: post #20

It's about time that the US start standing up to China's unrestricted warfare [1]. It's amazing that most Americans don't realize that China views the US as an adversary and has been quietly waging a war against the West. Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unrestricted_Warfare [2…

>Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. Perhaps it's because Big Tech is full of people who favor Chinese ideals over Western Enlightenment/American ideals, such as: -Group identity over individuality -Mass tracking/surveillance over privacy -Cenorship over free speech -State control/power over self defense

I have always wondered what people mean by "Chinese ideals". As a Chinese person myself, all 4 of your options are things that I oppose. I find myself consistently on the side of individuality, privacy, free speech, and self defense, when arguing against Americans that disagree. In fact I'm doing that right now in another thread in the process of defending yet another undefendable scoundrel, Facebook.

Do you actually have something concrete in mind here, or have you instead considered that this is merely an example of calling the enemy tribe every bad name you can think of?

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#65

Post by swagasaurus-rex »

account73466 wrote: post #58

Many of my scientific works were plagiarized by Chinese researchers. However, I still don't buy the hate on China that is dominant in media and here on Hacker News. Basically, i) the US wants to forbid other countries to have a chance to win in pure capitalistic games. Thus, it will block strong investors from certain countries but let itself to invest in the same countries. ii) the US (e.g., agencies and private fir…

Everything stated here applies the other way around.

i) China wants to forbid other countries to have a chance to win in pure capitalistic games. Thus it will block strong investors from outside but let itself invest in the same countries

ii) China (e.g., CPP) currently controls the entire world via electronics equipment sold globally at an undercut price. So it sounds like a bad joke when people claim that U.S.A is inventing some surveillance mechanisms like if it is a new one.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#66

Post by 50656E6973 »

knzhou wrote: post #64
50656E6973 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why there are people who welcome the rise of Chinese/CCP hegemony when they are actively looking to crush [2] "Western values" is beyond me. Perhaps it's because Big Tech is full of people who favor Chinese ideals over Western Enlightenment/American ideals, such as: -Group identity over individuality -Mass tracking/surveillance over privacy -Cenorship over free speech -State control/power over self defense

I have always wondered what people mean by "Chinese ideals". As a Chinese person myself, all 4 of your options are things that I oppose. I find myself consistently on the side of individuality, privacy, free speech, and self defense, when arguing against Americans that disagree. In fact I'm doing that right now in another thread in the process of defending yet another undefendable scoundrel, Facebook. Do you actually…

>Do you actually have something concrete in mind here

Ideals codified in law. For example, the 1rst and 2nd Amendments.

When generalizing with national boundaries, I of course do not mean to imply that literally everyone born within those imaginary lines thinks the same.

Are there more specific categories I could use for these ideological classifications?

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#67

Post by jbay808 »

m0zg wrote: post #23

Should also heighten scrutiny on export of advanced lithography, AI, material science, etc, to countries which are known for industrial espionage.

Seems like you'll want to petition the Dutch, Japanese, and Taiwanese governments to take some kind of action, then.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#68

Post by Canada »

scilro wrote: post #55
Canada wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, some very bad things have happened. Not excusing that. But also things have worked out really really well for a lot of countries the US has imposed its will on. Countries it went to war with and could have utterly raped and plundered without resistance or really any objection. You think China is going to do better? Will it be more fair? The regime in China is willing to hurt anyone who even debates its track re…

>You think China is going to do better? Well... why wouldn't they? China since the time of Deng has been acutely aware of the risk of becoming an imperialist power[1]. Even if they have arguably crossed that line at some points (the South China Sea...), they're clearly attempting to take a markedly alternative path to becoming a superpower. I think the media tends to portray individuals in the Chinese government as u…

Is it cynical? And is it's path really that different to the one taken by the US? The US didn't project power on a large scale until it became a major economic power and involvement in major military conflict drew there.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#69

Post by seanmcdirmid »

50656E6973 wrote: post #66
knzhou wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wondered what people mean by "Chinese ideals". As a Chinese person myself, all 4 of your options are things that I oppose. I find myself consistently on the side of individuality, privacy, free speech, and self defense, when arguing against Americans that disagree. In fact I'm doing that right now in another thread in the process of defending yet another undefendable scoundrel, Facebook. Do you actually…

>Do you actually have something concrete in mind here Ideals codified in law. For example, the 1rst and 2nd Amendments. When generalizing with national boundaries, I of course do not mean to imply that literally everyone born within those imaginary lines thinks the same. Are there more specific categories I could use for these ideological classifications?

The Chinese constitution codifies similar things, it’s just less effective without rule of law.

Re: U.S. Seeks to Heighten Scrutiny of Foreign Investment in Tech, Infra, Data

#70

Post by empath75 »

50656E6973 wrote: post #66
knzhou wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always wondered what people mean by "Chinese ideals". As a Chinese person myself, all 4 of your options are things that I oppose. I find myself consistently on the side of individuality, privacy, free speech, and self defense, when arguing against Americans that disagree. In fact I'm doing that right now in another thread in the process of defending yet another undefendable scoundrel, Facebook. Do you actually…

>Do you actually have something concrete in mind here Ideals codified in law. For example, the 1rst and 2nd Amendments. When generalizing with national boundaries, I of course do not mean to imply that literally everyone born within those imaginary lines thinks the same. Are there more specific categories I could use for these ideological classifications?

I think it’s probably better to think of those enlightenment ideals as not something particularly western in nature as they were opposed violently for centuries by the entrenched power structures of the west.
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