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After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

nytimes.com

171–180 of 317 posts

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#171

Don't get your hopes up, Uber drivers will still find a way to block the bike lanes.

If a bike lane is truly 'protected', that implies that between the road and the bike lane, there's a at least a curb if not an actual barrier.

I think the issue is that sometimes the lanes are wide enough for cars to drive down them, and so unless you out in some targeted barriers with too little spacing between for cars to fit, some drivers will absolutely go down them, and cops generally don't care overmuch.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#172
post #99
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. I don't care if a security system is not highly efficient in letting everyone moving around. It's not the point anyway. That's the kind of thinking that makes our roads so deadly. If a rule in particular seems really silly to you, file a complaint / suggest a change so that it takes more parameters into account but until it is changed, stick to it. Loose some seconds or even minutes, I don't really care. These se…

No, what makes our roads deadly is cars. Things with engines in them that can power a street of suburban homes. Never pedestrians.

My comment applies to cars too (if not mainly to cars). I'm not blaming pedestrians (I realize it wasn't obvious at all), I'm blaming all that ignore rules on the road and make these safety rules even less efficient because of the unpredictability. (edit: though of course cars & other vehicules make it far more dangerous)

I'm not a fan of cars already, but people driving cars while following safety rules only when it suits them is what make them a lot more deadly imo.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people don’t follow traffic signals it is the fault of the signals. That is, if everybody makes the same mistake, it is no individuals fault, but a fault in the system. To give a more concrete example. Say a traffic light has a pedestrian light attached. It will only allow pedestrian crossings when it does not stop the flow of vehicular traffic (say every 3-5 min, and only for 20 seconds at a time). But it does so…

> That is, if everybody makes the same mistake Who says it's a mistake? It has nothing to do with the signals and everything to do with the pedestrians. If you actually want people to respect the signals, place traffic police on every corner in Manhattan and issue jaywalking tickets to absolutely everyone, for months on end, and you'll see it. (You'll also see a backlash.) Other than that, it's not happening.

Giuliani already tried that. People didn't respect the signals.

https://www.nytimes.com/1998/01/13/nyregion/with-higher-fine...

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#174
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I commute on my bike in NYC daily and I am far more terrified of pedestrians and other cyclists than I am of cars. Cars for the most part pay attention and obey traffic rules. Cyclists less so and pedestrians ignore rules entirely and frequently aren't even aware of cyclists.

Wait until you get hit by your first car. I guarantee the object of your fear will change to the car. It's not a pleasant experience.

I've been hit by cars at speed outside of the city and outside of Manhattan I absolutely fear them more.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#175
post #24
post #17

Is there any sound comparison of protected bike lanes vs., for instance, 30kp/h zones with mixed bike/car traffic and sensible spacing? When cycling I find the cramped and the fast streets the most dangerous. And the pedestrians that cross into bikelanes. And slippery surfaces. So from my very private pov (I go around 25 to 30kph) there are much cheaper methods that I would want to give a try firat.

American drivers (especially in places like New York) generally just ignore 20MPH speed limits (~=30km/h).

Right. Low speed limits themselves are insufficient. You need to design or modify the road such that it actually feels like you have to go that slowly.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cops all drive into the city from Long Island. They don't understand how New Yorkers actually live and get around; to them a bike lane is a curiosity for weirdos who like to get around on a child's vehicle. Getting change in this regard will require either very serious change in how cops are regulated, or a change in cops' mindsets regarding cars and bikes. Not sure which I'd bet on happening first.

Is parking in a bike lane illegal? If so, would it be possible to citizen's arrest a cop for that? Or take them to court? Maybe it's an overreaction to a small crime, but it would set a precedent, no? Edit: I do not recommend trying to citizen's arrest a cop.

Citizen's arrest for a non-moving traffic violation? Sounds implausible, though I don't know NY law at all.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#177
post #127

This will get more people on bicycles, which will almost certainly make the problem worse, unfortunately. No amount of lane protection prevents collisions in intersections, which is where nearly all the deaths happen. The problem isn't the amount of protected lanes; it's the rampant amount of comically unqualified drivers. The two tearjerkers from the article are typical: an 18 year old blowing a red light and someon…

Protected intersections are also a thing. They didn't exist in the US at all until like 2015, but they're starting to become more common.

They don't make safety 100% perfect, obviously, but they do make things substantially better.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#178
post #134

I dont really want to hurt people’s feelings but why do we care about this topic so much? I am kind of confused about why people are so passionate about bike lanes. Isn't it better if we focus on improving the subway and the bus lines before anything? I would like to see an open minded discussion about the pros and cons of this.

It's easier to get around on bikes than walking. The easier "not using a car in an urban area" is, the better.

Building bike lanes can also be used for scooters and other kinds of non-auto transport.

Finally, mass transit is an order of magnitude more difficult to plan and implement, as effective MT needs to not only coexist with vehicles, but pre-empt them at intersections. Otherwise, they're slow and no one uses them.

Most cities in the US will never have a subway, so the only option is light-rail or protected bus lanes.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#179
post #151

As an avid cyclist in NYC, this is a huge step forward into cyclist protection. I can't tell you how many times i've almost been hit, or doored, by a car. Sometimes, it's a lot safer to run a red light to get in front of a car versus waiting for the light to turn- but of course that's not legal. Honestly, as huge and condensed NYC is, I am surprised this hasn't happened years ago. It's much, much more efficient to ge…

> I can't tell you how many times i've almost been hit, or doored, by a car. Do you try to pass right turning vehicles on the right or left turning vehicles on the left? If you're at risk for getting doored, then you need to ride further away from parked vehicles (at least 6 feet away).

A lot of bike lanes in New York do not have six feet of separation from parked cars.

Re: After Spike in Deaths, New York to Get 250 Miles of Protected Bike Lanes

#180
post #134

I dont really want to hurt people’s feelings but why do we care about this topic so much? I am kind of confused about why people are so passionate about bike lanes. Isn't it better if we focus on improving the subway and the bus lines before anything? I would like to see an open minded discussion about the pros and cons of this.

Bikes are good/useful in a number of ways. They're a form of individual transport, like walking or driving, with the advantages that that has over public transport -- namely, less waiting, point to point, not beholden to a schedule that might not match your schedule -- and they slot in nicely between walking and driving as a compromise between the strengths and weaknesses of both. Much faster and longer range than walking, more cargo capacity, but still much cheaper than driving, and without most of the issues cars have with things like generating noise, pollution, and danger.

Bikes are also healthy for people, and they're certainly more space-efficient than cars. Oh, and they're vastly less expensive for the city as well; building subways is enormously capital intensive, and buses have high ongoing operating expenses. Good quality bike infrastructure isn't exactly cheap...except that compared to high quality car or transit infrastructure, yeah it is relatively cheap.

So, altogether, replacing car space with bike space makes a ton of sense, especially for a city as dense as NYC. Sure, bus and subways improvements should happen too, but there's so much car space that's wasteful, and bike stuff is so cheap, that it's really low hanging fruit. No good reason not to develop it.

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