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900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

nytimes.com

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Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#81

Post by rghertgdvs »

foldr wrote: post #63
hinfehuf wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stfu you stupid fascist shit. "Lets just throw the sick gays in a camp!" fuck you. > many people would have had their rights violated The worst part about you is that you fucking know this is wrong but you're making it out like a 'rational' decision. That's straight nazi shit.

I hope the parent doesn't get "tone policed". The message is spot on.

Are you fucking serious? Fighting putting gay people in 'quarantine' camps is not tone policing. My god. You people even know this is fascist but you're advocating it anyway.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#82

Post by rghertgdvs »

pvaldes wrote: post #71
ars wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical when you have no medication capable of treating them. Can you imagine if the US had done mandatory testing and quarantine all those years ago? Obviously many people would have had their rights violated to do that, but it might have stopped the disease a long time ago. Voluntary self-quarantine clearly doesn't work. > will be terri…

> Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical This. We choose to do things different in the past and hide the disease. In retrospective it was a terrible mistake IMHO. The lets call it "human rights" way focused into preserving the rights of 10.000 or 100.000 people in the 80's. This proven to be a "genocide-level" idea for Africa (and other third world countries) that toke…

> I will call it, "fascist way"

Yes, it is. Not only that, you're conflating "people caught infecting deliberately other people" with the totality of the HIV-positive population. That is a tiny, tiny group of people.

I can't believe this shit. It's not even worth arguing against it's so fucking depraved and immoral.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#83

Post by scarmig »

pvaldes wrote: post #71
ars wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical when you have no medication capable of treating them. Can you imagine if the US had done mandatory testing and quarantine all those years ago? Obviously many people would have had their rights violated to do that, but it might have stopped the disease a long time ago. Voluntary self-quarantine clearly doesn't work. > will be terri…

> Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical This. We choose to do things different in the past and hide the disease. In retrospective it was a terrible mistake IMHO. The lets call it "human rights" way focused into preserving the rights of 10.000 or 100.000 people in the 80's. This proven to be a "genocide-level" idea for Africa (and other third world countries) that toke…

Among many other issues, the world you fantasize about would result in far more cases of HIV. What actually decreased HIV transmission rates was destigmatization; more people being tested; creating a cultural norm around condom use; and new treatment regimes and adherence strategies that decrease viral load to undetectability. All three of the latter have a core dependency on destigmatization, which your proposed policy would fail miserably at.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#84

Post by scarmig »

ars wrote: post #50
scarmig wrote: post #29

What's (not) shocking is how stigmatized the HIV-positive population is. Authorities are literally segregating the HIV-positive children into a different side of the room from the rest. An obvious effect of this is that people will be terrified to get tested at all, as it's all downside with the possible upside of treatment being a distant dream. And that makes it both harder to evaluate the spread of the disease, an…

Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical when you have no medication capable of treating them. Can you imagine if the US had done mandatory testing and quarantine all those years ago? Obviously many people would have had their rights violated to do that, but it might have stopped the disease a long time ago. Voluntary self-quarantine clearly doesn't work. > will be terri…

This is, frankly, idiotic, on moral, legal, and logistical levels.

Who is testing mandatory for? The entire population? And to be effective it'd have to be done on a quarterly basis (as that's the period of time where many tests won't detect the antibodies, and also when the virus is most communicable).

Okay, so now you identify tens of thousands of HIV positive individuals every month. What do your quarantine camps look like? How expensive are they to maintain? Are death rates lower or higher in these HIV concentration camps than in the outside world?

If this is a brilliant idea, why haven't other countries with few to no rights (e.g. Russia) implemented it to deal with their HIV crisis?

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#85

Post by DoreenMichele »

nexuist wrote: post #80
DoreenMichele wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. So are the rich in the two countries and the US is very prone to designing a world that only works for the upper classes. If money alone were all that mattered, you would think a country like the US wouldn't have thousands of homeless, etc.

Money is not what matters and hasn't mattered for a long time. What matters is access to capital, governed by statistics such as credit score, which itself is affected by your mental faculty and ability to hold down a job (i.e. follow instructions, assuming you have job opportunities which are abundant in any U.S. city compared to the third world). >According to a 2015 assessment by the U.S. Department of Housing and…

No, homelessness is not (just) a mental health problem. Your own source indicates less than half of homeless people have a mental health issue and lists depression, anxiety and substance abuse as some of the mental health issues suffered by homeless individuals. All three of those can be caused or worsened by being homeless.

There are many factors that contribute to homelessness. Physical ailments can help lead to homelessness, but so can the high cost of housing:

Research by Zillow Group Inc. last year found that a 5 percent increase in rents in L.A. translates into about 2,000 more homeless people, among the highest correlations in the U.S. The median rent for a one-bedroom in the city was $2,371 in September, up 43 percent from 2010. Similarly, consultant McKinsey & Co. recently concluded that the runup in housing costs was 96 percent correlated with Seattle’s soaring homeless population. Even skeptics have come around to accepting the relationship. “I argued for a long time that the homelessness issue wasn’t due to rents,” says Joel Singer, chief executive officer of the California Association of Realtors. “I can’t argue that anymore.”

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-11-20/the-homel...

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#86

Post by foldr »

rghertgdvs wrote: post #81
foldr wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope the parent doesn't get "tone policed". The message is spot on.

Are you fucking serious? Fighting putting gay people in 'quarantine' camps is not tone policing. My god. You people even know this is fascist but you're advocating it anyway.

I agree with you - I think you've misunderstood my comment. (I said parent, not grandparent.)

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#87

Post by nitwit005 »

adrianN wrote: post #52
nitwit005 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll just end up even poorer if their kids get diseases through the syringes.

The alternative is that the children don't get medical treatment and die.

Have you ever gotten a non-emergency medical treatment so beneficial that it was worth getting HIV in exchange? Do you know anyone who has? I wish we had medicine that amazing, but it doesn't exist.

In theory, such a treatment is possible, but in reality, they're just making everything worse.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#88

Post by pvaldes »

rghertgdvs wrote: post #82
pvaldes wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical This. We choose to do things different in the past and hide the disease. In retrospective it was a terrible mistake IMHO. The lets call it "human rights" way focused into preserving the rights of 10.000 or 100.000 people in the 80's. This proven to be a "genocide-level" idea for Africa (and other third world countries) that toke…

> I will call it, "fascist way" Yes, it is. Not only that, you're conflating "people caught infecting deliberately other people" with the totality of the HIV-positive population. That is a tiny, tiny group of people. I can't believe this shit. It's not even worth arguing against it's so fucking depraved and immoral.

> you're conflating "people caught infecting deliberately other people" with the totality of the HIV-positive population

Nope. I'm not saying that. Read my post again

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#89

Post by pvaldes »

scarmig wrote: post #83
pvaldes wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical This. We choose to do things different in the past and hide the disease. In retrospective it was a terrible mistake IMHO. The lets call it "human rights" way focused into preserving the rights of 10.000 or 100.000 people in the 80's. This proven to be a "genocide-level" idea for Africa (and other third world countries) that toke…

Among many other issues, the world you fantasize about would result in far more cases of HIV. What actually decreased HIV transmission rates was destigmatization; more people being tested; creating a cultural norm around condom use; and new treatment regimes and adherence strategies that decrease viral load to undetectability. All three of the latter have a core dependency on destigmatization, which your proposed pol…

> the world you fantasize about would result in far more cases of HIV.

I think that the opposite is infinitely more probable. Less new cases when people has the knowledge to take reasoned decisions. The right to african wifes to know that her husband has become a carrier should prevail over the right from those men to hide the disease and remain silent for convenience. African doctors should assure to inform the wife by default in their protocols, because this people have rights also, and the number of cases are all except "tiny".

Desestigmatisation is exactly the opposite to hiding the disease, that is what we really are doing (and is not working).

And I say that is not working because still there are thousands of new cases in the world each year with the difference that nobody cares yet. Young generations do not developped the danger sense about HIV that scarred older generations in 80's and 90's. Some of this adolescents are being caught in the most stupid way (And good luck telling some people that must buy and use a condom every time).

Being transparent and loyal to your partner and society about the condition is a first requisite for desestigmatisation.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#90

Post by hdhajd »

foldr wrote: post #86
rghertgdvs wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you fucking serious? Fighting putting gay people in 'quarantine' camps is not tone policing. My god. You people even know this is fascist but you're advocating it anyway.

I agree with you - I think you've misunderstood my comment. (I said parent, not grandparent.)

(Account got deleted)

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I just feel like I’m taking crazy pills reading these comments.

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