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900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

nytimes.com

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Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#61

Post by oefrha »

tomc1985 wrote: post #48
oefrha wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Between this and no treatment, the choice is easy for most people. Although I do find “rummaging through the trash” for syringes astonishing. If you’re gonna reuse it, at least sterilize it (failing that, rinse it) and store it somewhere clean?

This is what I've never understood about the "you don't know poverty" argument... sure they may not have equipment but there are basic best practices that cost little more than time Perhaps there are more people that would prefer to watch the world burn than we think

Poverty also correlates with lack of education, so there’s also that. I heard (without any verification) that until recently a large percentage of rural population in India find nothing wrong in drinking from and shitting in the same river (let’s put aside technicalities like upstream/downstream).

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#62

Post by oefrha »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #55
nexuist wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a possible solution for healthcare in the first world, but not the third world. "Affordability" makes no sense when these families (families, not individuals) are earning a few pennies a day. The only solution is to give stuff away for free at a loss. No amount of innovation or cost savings can fix the fact that people (and even institutions) cannot afford syringes. The only real issue in the third world is n…

In the third world, when IVs are not available to treat dehydration, they spoon feed people water. It takes up to two hours, but it's safe and effective. I did it once for one of my children. He was four and I didn't want him to be subjected to an IV. Possible solutions include an oral or topical medication to replace the injected medication. The poor in the US often also need actual affordable solutions that work. T…

While I agree with your general sentiment, you do realize that “the poor in the US” and the poor in Pakistan are orders of magnitude apart, don’t you?

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#63

Post by foldr »

hinfehuf wrote: post #60
ars wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical when you have no medication capable of treating them. Can you imagine if the US had done mandatory testing and quarantine all those years ago? Obviously many people would have had their rights violated to do that, but it might have stopped the disease a long time ago. Voluntary self-quarantine clearly doesn't work. > will be terri…

Stfu you stupid fascist shit. "Lets just throw the sick gays in a camp!" fuck you. > many people would have had their rights violated The worst part about you is that you fucking know this is wrong but you're making it out like a 'rational' decision. That's straight nazi shit.

I hope the parent doesn't get "tone policed". The message is spot on.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#64

Post by DoreenMichele »

oefrha wrote: post #62
DoreenMichele wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the third world, when IVs are not available to treat dehydration, they spoon feed people water. It takes up to two hours, but it's safe and effective. I did it once for one of my children. He was four and I didn't want him to be subjected to an IV. Possible solutions include an oral or topical medication to replace the injected medication. The poor in the US often also need actual affordable solutions that work. T…

While I agree with your general sentiment, you do realize that “the poor in the US” and the poor in Pakistan are orders of magnitude apart, don’t you?

Yes. So are the rich in the two countries and the US is very prone to designing a world that only works for the upper classes.

If money alone were all that mattered, you would think a country like the US wouldn't have thousands of homeless, etc.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#65

Post by masonic »

andrewstuart wrote: post #8
egtiller wrote: post #2

This news report makes my mind boggle. Reuse of syringes? In this century? The doctor says he was too poor to afford syringes! So reuse of syringes is the solution? Bill the cost of the syringe to the patient. Ask for donations. Do whatever it takes but never reuse a syringe. How can a doctor find reuse of syringes remotely acceptable?

This is how poverty works - they probably genuinely have no way if getting the needed stuff even if they knew how important it is.

Too poor to even afford a simple chlorine bleach solution to rinse syringes (at minimum!) is very poor indeed.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#66

Post by masonic »

dfasdfasd wrote: post #56
ars wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quarantining infected people who have an incurable disease is not really that illogical when you have no medication capable of treating them. Can you imagine if the US had done mandatory testing and quarantine all those years ago? Obviously many people would have had their rights violated to do that, but it might have stopped the disease a long time ago. Voluntary self-quarantine clearly doesn't work. > will be terri…

Yikessss the 1980's US government quarantining a huge percentage of the gay community... That ain't it. HIV is not easy to communicate to other people. Education and PrEP have reduced the problem immensely.

  1980's US government quarantining a huge percentage of the gay community.
The US government didn't quarantine anybody. If they had, as was done for every other fatal communicable disease for a century, hundreds of thousands of gay and other men could have been saved.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#67

Post by Symbiote »

cbhl wrote: post #47
egtiller wrote: post #2

This news report makes my mind boggle. Reuse of syringes? In this century? The doctor says he was too poor to afford syringes! So reuse of syringes is the solution? Bill the cost of the syringe to the patient. Ask for donations. Do whatever it takes but never reuse a syringe. How can a doctor find reuse of syringes remotely acceptable?

Article also says that the doctor charged 20 cents (presumably US cents) to treat a patient. Compare that with $300 USD to see my GP for fifteen minutes...

Syringes cost 2-4¢ in a developing country (from a quick search) so that explains the problem.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#68

Post by onetimemanytime »

belltaco wrote: post #38

This is sad. They spend like 20% of their budget on their army and the army runs so much of their economy, and is on the stock market and owns stocks. Not to mention all the F-16s and Mirage fighters etc costing like $20 million each https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Army#Corporate_and_bu... https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/21/poor-nation-rich-army/

Geography! Pakistan is screwed, India is a neighbor and can always outspend Pakistan https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/bodyedito... . Don't spend on the military is cute and all, until you get invaded or Findlandized.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#69

Post by ahbyb »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #68
belltaco wrote: post #38

This is sad. They spend like 20% of their budget on their army and the army runs so much of their economy, and is on the stock market and owns stocks. Not to mention all the F-16s and Mirage fighters etc costing like $20 million each https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Army#Corporate_and_bu... https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/21/poor-nation-rich-army/

Geography! Pakistan is screwed, India is a neighbor and can always outspend Pakistan https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/bodyedito... . Don't spend on the military is cute and all, until you get invaded or Findlandized.

That might not be the worst thing that could happen to Pakistan, though.

Re: 900 Children Test Positive for H.I.V. in Pakistani city of Ratodero

#70

Post by stubish »

throwaway8941 wrote: post #26
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still for the life of me can't understand how anyone with any medical training at all could reuse a syringe. Some other shortcuts I could imagine, but reusing a syringe is like eventually guaranteeing this kind of outbreak.

Because you don't know what real poverty is like (neither do I)? I remember a story from one of Atul Gawande's books (was it Complications?) about how rural Indian surgeons operate. As he described it, they were missing many kinds of equipment that western surgeons consider absolutely indispensable in doing their work. They replaced it with whatever was available, stuff like plastic piping from the nearest plumbing s…

(assuming the anecdote is correct) Rummaging around in the rubbish for a syringe is not about poverty, except perhaps that in real poverty you only have access to the worst doctors or none at all. Even if economics make fresh needles impossible, it takes so little effort make an attempt to sterilize that this sort of behavior is criminal. Start by not storing needles you might want to reuse in the rubbish bin and donations of scraps of wood to boil water.
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