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1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

nytimes.com

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Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#171

Post by cududa »

baroffoos wrote: post #170
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

No, there should not be street side parking on most streets as this becomes a huge hazard for cyclists with uni students randomly swerving in and out to deliver a pizza or people carelessly swinging doors open to get out of a taxi without looking. Inside a city, for most kinds of deliveries, it would be more efficient to have people deliver by e-bikes. A bike with a trailer or large bag is an incredibly efficient way…

Bicyclists are pretty reckless in their driving. It’s extremely rare to see one actually stop at a traffic signal and not just blow through when they have momentum.

As for package size ... I’m not sure there’s much of anything delivered to my building on a daily basis that could be transported up hill by bike.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#172

Post by cududa »

nradov wrote: post #73
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

Less urgent deliveries could presumably be batched together, resulting in fewer trucks on the road.

...how does that decrease the volume of shipments?

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#173

Post by baroffoos »

cududa wrote: post #171
baroffoos wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there should not be street side parking on most streets as this becomes a huge hazard for cyclists with uni students randomly swerving in and out to deliver a pizza or people carelessly swinging doors open to get out of a taxi without looking. Inside a city, for most kinds of deliveries, it would be more efficient to have people deliver by e-bikes. A bike with a trailer or large bag is an incredibly efficient way…

Bicyclists are pretty reckless in their driving. It’s extremely rare to see one actually stop at a traffic signal and not just blow through when they have momentum. As for package size ... I’m not sure there’s much of anything delivered to my building on a daily basis that could be transported up hill by bike.

I suggested ebikes and trailers which makes it fairly easy to move anything of up to about 40kg and smaller than a tv box. I have ridden a bike pulling a trailer of 20kg up to the top of a mountain and it was quite do able but with an ebike it would be trivial. Most packages that people order are very small items that could fit in one hand and suit this method very well.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#174

Post by jshaqaw »

CydeWeys wrote: post #57
nemo44x wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not being given away. They pay taxes to live in the city and at 3% it’s not cheap. I live in the city and think having a car is ridiculous in many parts but let’s remember that the citizens are paying a lot of tax. Forcing everyone to use a garage is elitist as they run over $600/month.

Those of us who live in the city and don't own cars are paying those exact same taxes, except we don't get free parking in return for them. It's absolutely being given away. You pay those taxes regardless of whether or not you have a car. And it's not unreasonable to expect that if people want to have a car they should pay the actual cost of doing so. Why should the rest of us subsidize those people?

That’s what collective governance is. I live in NYC. I’m sure the bulk of my taxes subsidize some form of “those people” of whom I am not a part. It’s called a community. I don’t bike and yet I support I infrastructure for bikers.

As for cars, I sympathize with many people I know who have cars and need them to reverse commute or to take care of elderly parents in the burbs etc... The rich have garages. On street parking is a pain but viable for the middle class.

Let’s admit there are two valuable sides here. It doesn’t mean we don’t ultimately weigh one claim as more worthy but let’s not be cartoonish.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#175

Post by catalogia »

baroffoos wrote: post #170
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

No, there should not be street side parking on most streets as this becomes a huge hazard for cyclists with uni students randomly swerving in and out to deliver a pizza or people carelessly swinging doors open to get out of a taxi without looking. Inside a city, for most kinds of deliveries, it would be more efficient to have people deliver by e-bikes. A bike with a trailer or large bag is an incredibly efficient way…

You might be onto something here. The last delivery I received was a chair; it came unassembled but was still fairly bulky. I'd pay a small premium to watch somebody try to carry it on a bicycle because that sounds hilarious.

More seriously, most small items are shipped in packaging that's much too large. Solve that problem and non-truck delivery becomes a lot more feasible. Still not feasible for some packages though.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#176

Post by jcims »

baroffoos wrote: post #170
crazygringo wrote: post #40

The problem isn't trucks -- obviously, it's hugely more efficient for a single truck+driver to deliver 100's of packages in a single day than for 100's of individual people to spend an hour each going to/from a store, and even worse for congestion if even more than a few are taking individual vehicles. The problem is parking. And the solution is obvious: multiple truck-length parking spaces along each and every block…

No, there should not be street side parking on most streets as this becomes a huge hazard for cyclists with uni students randomly swerving in and out to deliver a pizza or people carelessly swinging doors open to get out of a taxi without looking. Inside a city, for most kinds of deliveries, it would be more efficient to have people deliver by e-bikes. A bike with a trailer or large bag is an incredibly efficient way…

More efficient by which metric? It's going to take 30+ ebike trips to cover a full delivery truck with a lot of deadhead trips to pick up more packages. How much are you paying them? Same rates as the drivers? Good luck!

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#178

Post by baroffoos »

catalogia wrote: post #175
baroffoos wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, there should not be street side parking on most streets as this becomes a huge hazard for cyclists with uni students randomly swerving in and out to deliver a pizza or people carelessly swinging doors open to get out of a taxi without looking. Inside a city, for most kinds of deliveries, it would be more efficient to have people deliver by e-bikes. A bike with a trailer or large bag is an incredibly efficient way…

You might be onto something here. The last delivery I received was a chair; it came unassembled but was still fairly bulky. I'd pay a small premium to watch somebody try to carry it on a bicycle because that sounds hilarious. More seriously, most small items are shipped in packaging that's much too large. Solve that problem and non-truck delivery becomes a lot more feasible. Still not feasible for some packages thoug…

A chair is something you would likely still deliver by truck but most of the items I have received and seen others receive come in a small box or a bubble wrap plastic sleeve. Or they are food items. These are all ideal for delivering by bike and in my city they mostly are.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#179

Post by nemo44x »

CydeWeys wrote: post #57
nemo44x wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not being given away. They pay taxes to live in the city and at 3% it’s not cheap. I live in the city and think having a car is ridiculous in many parts but let’s remember that the citizens are paying a lot of tax. Forcing everyone to use a garage is elitist as they run over $600/month.

Those of us who live in the city and don't own cars are paying those exact same taxes, except we don't get free parking in return for them. It's absolutely being given away. You pay those taxes regardless of whether or not you have a car. And it's not unreasonable to expect that if people want to have a car they should pay the actual cost of doing so. Why should the rest of us subsidize those people?

I don’t use bike lanes or a bunch of other things but yet I pay for them. This is how taxes work.

Re: 1.5M Packages a Day Bring Chaos to NYC Streets

#180

Post by nemo44x »

jcranmer wrote: post #63
nemo44x wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not being given away. They pay taxes to live in the city and at 3% it’s not cheap. I live in the city and think having a car is ridiculous in many parts but let’s remember that the citizens are paying a lot of tax. Forcing everyone to use a garage is elitist as they run over $600/month.

That $600/month is roughly the land value of of the parking space. Were the parking free, you would be paying that money implicitly through higher rents. A car in Manhattan is definitely a luxury item: space is at a premium, and single-occupant vehicles are the least efficient use of that space. If you want to use that space so wastefully, I see no reason why you shouldn't be charged the full cost of that decision.

Should we then charge money for entrance to the bike lane?

I don’t own a car but I have friends with children, others who drive ride share, and many other reasons why they need a car. They can’t afford to pay for a garage (many people live in subsidized or rent controlled places) and don’t need a bike. What should they do?

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