241–250 of 313 posts
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Of course there are, the you just called it something else: hydro.
Here's an example: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station
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If you shop around it's abundantly clear that the price of a new roof varies wildly. Some of it is materials. The guy offering 50 year warranty GAF super-premium install who spots loads of potential problems up front and factors them into the cost is going to run much higher. The guy who is just going to hire some rando non-english speaking guys from the 7-11 and toss on the cheapest possible materials without concer…
> Who is going to hire some rando non-english speaking guys from the 7-11 You know you didn't have to put non-english speaking in there, right? Totally unnecessary and shows potential racial bias. (I'm not perfect either, and it bugs me when I say stuff like that too.)
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That's exactly what regulation is and does. It picks winners, picks harmful phenomenon, and acts accordingly, with a short-to-medium timeframe based on what would get the most votes. I, too, believe that taxing actual atmospheric carbon impact would be great, but how would you measure such a thing fairly?
>That's exactly what regulation is and does. It picks winners, picks harmful phenomenon, and acts accordingly, with a short-to-medium timeframe based on what would get the most votes. The subsidies are terrible. They are way too narrow and don’t address the root cause of the issue. Climate change is not happening because we don’t have enough renewables, climate change is happening because our GHG emissions are too hi…
Subsidies are woefully inaccurate, but can be applied locally on most political climates. Carbon emission taxes would be better, but global competition makes that difficult.
> And we’re actually going to have […] ‘installathons,’ ” Musk said, which will pit two teams against each other to see who can roof one of two similar-sized/designed roofs faster. Musk reiterated later that there’s “quite a bit of R&D just in the installation process itself.” Not a short seller, but that sounds a lot like: “We don’t yet know how to do this well, but in the meantime we are going to optimize for speed…
It's better to ship and start iterating than to sit around and refine without sufficient real world feedback.
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I just put in a 12kw system. It was $32k before federal rebate, and it was the cheapest bid by 5 different contractors. Not sure where your getting $15k
Wow, that seems quite high. Panels are around $0.50/Wh. Add in another $2000 in materials and labor cost $24k!
Total of parts ~$20k. $12k for construction in the Seattle area seems fair for a complex electrical install that includes a 10 year install and 25 year system warranty.
I think like many things, the last mile of work is way more expensive then people realize. Solar is more than the panels themselves
Note: I could have used cheaper panels, but they take up more roof. I could have also saved money by skipping the per-panel micro-inverters, but then the system is more brittle and less efficient
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>This was true 20 years ago and will be laughable 20 years from now. Will the sun start shining at night in 20 years? >Fossil fuel generators do NOT ramp up and down quickly. Natural gas ramps as quickly as it can. But let's assume that's true, that's not a point against me, it's a point against solar because then it means that solar is completely unworkable. >Every one of these supposed drawbacks of solar also apply…
> Natural gas ramps as quickly as it can. But let's assume that's true, that's not a point against me, it's a point against solar because then it means that solar is completely unworkable. You're thinking about this wrong. If you want 100% generation from solar then you need a ton of storage, period. But who says it has to be 100% solar or 0? Take a look at the daily electricity demand curve. Lower at night, higher d…
Right. So we agree, solar cannot remove carbon emissions. And I thought the entire point is to remove fossil fuels entirely from energy generation, not just reduce it.
>you use nuclear at night
It doesn't work like that. Nuclear can take days to ramp up and ramp down. Solar does not play well with nuclear.
That's one problem.
A more major issue is...if you're using nuclear, why the heck do you even need solar? This is the energy mix of my home province[1] - we're essentially fossil fuel-free because our energy mix is nuclear and hydro. There is no point in increasing investment in solar and wind. But we're doing it, not because it's good for reducing carbon emission, but because it's a fad.
> And we’re actually going to have […] ‘installathons,’ ” Musk said, which will pit two teams against each other to see who can roof one of two similar-sized/designed roofs faster. Musk reiterated later that there’s “quite a bit of R&D just in the installation process itself.” Not a short seller, but that sounds a lot like: “We don’t yet know how to do this well, but in the meantime we are going to optimize for speed…
He prioritizes speed apparently at the cost of anything else. I wonder why he feels such urgency? I mean yeah he finally got a profit out of Tesla last quarter. But there’s really no tolerance for hiccups in a roof install.
I thought replacing ICE engines and developing more in renewable energy would be accepted.
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>This was true 20 years ago and will be laughable 20 years from now. Will the sun start shining at night in 20 years? >Fossil fuel generators do NOT ramp up and down quickly. Natural gas ramps as quickly as it can. But let's assume that's true, that's not a point against me, it's a point against solar because then it means that solar is completely unworkable. >Every one of these supposed drawbacks of solar also apply…
Storage costs are dropping rapidly. New batteries are nearly there for cost competitiveness. As the first generation of BEV batteries become 'spent', they will be reused in grid-scale applications. Space and weight are not a concern, and most will have ~70% of their original capacity. That accelerates quickly once Gen 2 batteries have hit end of life.
Read around, nobody actually believes Li-ion batteries can bridge the intermittency gaps of solar and wind. The production capacity may never be there and cost aren't there today and may never get there (cost for US to store 10-15% of excess summer energy to use in winter with Li-ion batteries would run tens of trillions of dollars). Li-ion batteries leak energy if you want to use them to store excess power for weeks (as you would have to).
That's the problem. There isn't a battery technology now, or forthcoming.
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>This was true 20 years ago and will be laughable 20 years from now. Will the sun start shining at night in 20 years? >Fossil fuel generators do NOT ramp up and down quickly. Natural gas ramps as quickly as it can. But let's assume that's true, that's not a point against me, it's a point against solar because then it means that solar is completely unworkable. >Every one of these supposed drawbacks of solar also apply…
> Will the sun start shining at night in 20 years? Do batteries stop working at night? > No. Because we know we can power an economy with fossil fuels, and do it in any weather, day or night. ...and irreparably destroy the planet by doing so > Here's what works: Nuclear, Hydro, Geothermal I agree! But I think we are perfectly capable of utilizing these AND solar, wind, and storage?
There is no battery technology (now or forthcoming) that can store enough energy to power a moderately sized city for a few hours, much less days or weeks.
>..and irreparably destroy the planet by doing so
I wasn't making a case for natural gas. I was a case that solar needs to be paired with natural gas.
>But I think we are perfectly capable of utilizing these AND solar, wind, and storage?
Why? If you're using nuclear and hydro, why bother with solar and wind?
Here's a live view of the energy mix of my home province [1]. Almost all clean. Why bother with solar and wind?