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Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

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Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#161

Post by macspoofing »

mcot2 wrote: post #150
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #25

> It also lists $33,950 as the price after an $8,550 federal tax incentive. There is something absolutely astonishing about the fact that in America the way we have go about being eco-friendly is to give huge tax breaks to rich people to buy solar panels and electric vehicles. To think with all that money we could build better infrastructure and denser housing. Really boggles the mind.

You don’t really have to be “rich” to afford this roof. It’s a totally sensible investment that actually pays for itself between 10-20 years and you can use a loan to finance it. It’s also very sensible for new home construction which is also traditionally financed via a mortgage.

>It’s a totally sensible investment that actually pays for itself between 10-20 years

You can't say that!!!

That may be sort of true for traditional solar panels. There is scant data on whether a solar roof will ever be cost-effective. They are an unproven technology at this point.

There are several differences between solar panels and solar roofs:

1) Solar roof is more expensive and less efficient. You're trading efficiency for something that looks nice. Is that something a government should subsidize? Rich people getting subsidies for aesthetic reasons?

2) Solar roof panels are not as durable as solar panels, are not as scalable, and the market for them is tiny - limited to people who want to get solar panels and a new roof. V1 and V2 versions of Tesla roof was a disaster.

3) Installation is much much harder and requires specialized professionals. Installing solar panels is already fraught with challenges (safety and otherwise), and all those need to do is collect sunshine. A solar roof also needs to take into account protection from the elements and therefore needs increased durability.

Good writeup: https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/5-reasons-to-no...

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#162

Post by zdrummond »

tgtweak wrote: post #89
wil421 wrote: post #6

> Tesla’s Solar Roof website now includes a pricing estimator, which lists $42,500 as the total price for the average 2,000 square-foot home, with 10kW solar panels. It also lists $33,950 as the price after an $8,550 federal tax incentive. You can also enter your address and get an updated estimate that takes into account local costs and incentives, and add on any Powerwalls (with three as the default for a 2,000 squ…

You could reshingle a roof for $3.50/sqft and it's not unheard of to get traditional solar installed at $1.50/W, ~$15,000 for a 10kw system. $7000 + $15,000 Then you apply the federal credit after that. This is for a grid-tie system, I don't think Tesla is pricing theirs with a powerwall here. Edit: apparently they're pricing it with 2 powerwalls, still cheaper by a sizeable margin however.

I just put in a 12kw system. It was $32k before federal rebate, and it was the cheapest bid by 5 different contractors. Not sure where your getting $15k

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#163

Post by clavalle »

dx87 wrote: post #12

I wonder where they're getting their average price from, because I've never heard of a new roof and solar panel installation being that expensive. EDIT: They're comparing it to concrete roof tiles, which a quick search say that they last for ~50 years, twice as long as the warranty for the Tesla solar roof. https://www.tesla.com/solarroof/design

I'm getting solar put in and it's about that much.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#164

Post by NeedMoreTea »

makomk wrote: post #112
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and yet it is particularly common in the UK for the home solar to be installed by a commercial provider (who don't get that subsidy, just feed-in tariffs), that provide the panels in exchange for the feed-in tariff from your roof. You get mostly free electric and sometimes some portion of feed-in tariff, they own the panels. If it was that pointless, this sort of deal could never add up, for either party.

Feed-in tariffs are a subsidy - they pay out more than the actual market value of the electricity, and that money comes from the bills paid by other consumers. This is especially true of the ones on older UK solar installations, which are higher than the retail cost of the electricity. There might be some justification for arguing that the ones in other places with much greater reliance on air conditioning and a summ…

The sad thing is, the feed-in tariff subsidy would be less than UK's existing fossil fuel subsidies for homeowners. Yet solar is worth doing today in the UK, even with no subsidy if you project to stay in the house long enough to pay back capital cost.

With current solar pricing, it would be better for everyone if they simply moved a requirement for solar into the building regs. Like they've steadily done with insulation levels- though these are not yet adequate.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#165

Post by macspoofing »

hokkos wrote: post #36
rjkennedy98 wrote: post #25

> It also lists $33,950 as the price after an $8,550 federal tax incentive. There is something absolutely astonishing about the fact that in America the way we have go about being eco-friendly is to give huge tax breaks to rich people to buy solar panels and electric vehicles. To think with all that money we could build better infrastructure and denser housing. Really boggles the mind.

Incentiving rich people to buy expansive tech (and still at lost for the riches) help the technologies to ride the cost curve and bring it to the masses.

No no. That's not how it works. Rich people have money, so they are perfect early adopters since they subsidize new technology until the technology gains economies of scale. But that's the key thing, they are using their own money to do that. It's not the same when you have the government subsidize their purchase.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#166

Post by blurbleblurble »

gambiting wrote: post #125
belltaco wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The masses don't own houses to put these roofs on Is this based off an SV mindset? There are plenty of homeowners that aren't rich around the country. Plus less pollution in the air helps the masses too, with fewer health issues and less extreme weather on a long term basis.

Of course it is, and unfortunately you see it a lot on HN - apparently no one in any country can afford houses anymore. It's like this Futurama joke - "no one drives in Manhattan anymore - there's too much traffic". On this side of the pond it's the London residents saying that no one except for the ultra rich can own houses, forgetting that in other parts of the country you can buy a (new!) house for as little as £1…

As little as? For many people living in those parts of the country that isn't as magically affordable as you might think!

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#167

Post by cullenking »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #54
shawnz wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is $8000 huge? What kind of infrastructure do you expect to build with that?

You’re right. $8k is not a lot. But multiply that by the amount of people who received the incentive, and it adds up

Probably only to a couple dozen large freeway exchanges....

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#168

Post by mcculley »

zaroth wrote: post #157
mcculley wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure that is a useful number. Don’t most of that 64% own only a fraction of their home? How many homeowners are not paying off a mortgage?

This is vastly moving the goalposts of the discussion. The point is 64% of Americans are dealing with issues like deciding when to replace their roof, and what material to replace it with.

Yes, for purposes of the discussion about installing roofs, you are correct. I am just bemused by this statistic. The vast majority of “homeowners” are paying a lot of interest to lenders.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#169

Post by cptskippy »

mantap wrote: post #41
werdnapk wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The manufacturer states 25-30 years for shingles, but it's rarely the case they actually last that long unless you're paying for premium shingles. I'm in Canada though, so perhaps the harsher weather has something to do with that. Regardless, in Canada at least, 25-30 years for shingles is not common; 15-20 is more realistic from what I can tell in my area.

Why do they degrade so quickly? I also live in UK and replacing an entire roof is not a common thing to do, every 50 years sounds about right, my roof is 35 years old without any leaks.

UK roofs typically aren't asphalt shingles like most homes in the US and Canada. Asphalt shingles are closer to sand paper than the tiles you're accustom too.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#170

Post by amayne »

fortran77 wrote: post #104
hokkos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentiving rich people to buy expansive tech (and still at lost for the riches) help the technologies to ride the cost curve and bring it to the masses.

Let rich people get the buggy version 1.0 stuff and help the technology mature for everyone! I'll wait a few years and get the debugged version 2.0 or 3.0 for 1/10th the price. Look at 4K TV sets, for example.

Or cellular phones, computers, refrigeration, microwaves, electricity, AC and a thousand other things that only rich people used to be able to afford.

Just about any luxury of the rich that can be produced more efficiently over time makes its way to the average consumer.

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