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Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

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Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#121

Post by gzer0 »

xwdv wrote: post #101
tibiapejagala wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trickle-down of the left.

You mean the right. This is exactly what is meant by trickle down economics. The left just likes to pretend that because money isn’t going directly in your pocket it’s all a scam, but that’s not the truth. Sorry.

Except that time and time again, it has been shown that it absolutely does not work.

"[I]f the income share of the top 20 percent (the rich) increases, then GDP growth actually declines over the medium term, suggesting that the benefits do not trickle down. In contrast, an increase in the income share of the bottom 20 percent (the poor) is associated with higher GDP growth. [1]"

[1] https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/Staff-Discussion-Notes/I...

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#122

Post by adrianmonk »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #110
hokkos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentiving rich people to buy expansive tech (and still at lost for the riches) help the technologies to ride the cost curve and bring it to the masses.

The masses don't own houses to put these roofs on. Because of concentration of wealth and return on capital exacerbating that concentration. Because of rent seeking pyramid schemes. Which I imagine artificially restricts demand for improvements like solar panel roofs: who has more inventive to invest in things like solar panel roofs? Owner occupants who are in it for the long term, or rent seeking landlords just tryi…

Even if everything you say is true, it still doesn't negate the fact that it's a new technology which is expensive and needs investment in order to bring down the cost.

When computers were new, only rich organizations like governments, banks, and large corporations could afford them. Now you can buy a raspberry pi for close to nothing.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#123

Post by belltaco »

fortran77 wrote: post #104
hokkos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentiving rich people to buy expansive tech (and still at lost for the riches) help the technologies to ride the cost curve and bring it to the masses.

Let rich people get the buggy version 1.0 stuff and help the technology mature for everyone! I'll wait a few years and get the debugged version 2.0 or 3.0 for 1/10th the price. Look at 4K TV sets, for example.

Out of the loop here, what were the big issues with early 4K TVs?

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#124

Post by navigatesol »

Clubber wrote: post #105
hokkos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentiving rich people to buy expansive tech (and still at lost for the riches) help the technologies to ride the cost curve and bring it to the masses.

People who pay more than $8500 in taxes can benefit from the tax break. I'm not sure I'd consider that rich.

>I'm not sure I'd consider that rich.

People who are installing $40,000+ roofs on 2000+ sqft homes are not rich by your standards? Or do you truly believe these panels will "print money"?

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#125

Post by gambiting »

belltaco wrote: post #115
blurbleblurble wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The masses don't own houses to put these roofs on. Because of concentration of wealth and return on capital exacerbating that concentration. Because of rent seeking pyramid schemes. Which I imagine artificially restricts demand for improvements like solar panel roofs: who has more inventive to invest in things like solar panel roofs? Owner occupants who are in it for the long term, or rent seeking landlords just tryi…

>The masses don't own houses to put these roofs on Is this based off an SV mindset? There are plenty of homeowners that aren't rich around the country. Plus less pollution in the air helps the masses too, with fewer health issues and less extreme weather on a long term basis.

Of course it is, and unfortunately you see it a lot on HN - apparently no one in any country can afford houses anymore. It's like this Futurama joke - "no one drives in Manhattan anymore - there's too much traffic". On this side of the pond it's the London residents saying that no one except for the ultra rich can own houses, forgetting that in other parts of the country you can buy a (new!) house for as little as £100-120k.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#126

Post by DFHippie »

buboard wrote: post #56
rootsudo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also say that Rich people pave the way for adaption. For example, look at prices of flights. Before there was no "first class" everything was first class, now there are cabin options. While that example is a service, more proliferation of service == wider adaption == increased scale of economies == eventually prices come down for everyone.

That would be true if solar roofs were some novel technology that the rich would adopt first, and then the rest. This is a remix of existing technology, much like the iphone. The rich don't have roofs, they have domes or yachts. The poor don't own roofs. This is directed at the middle class squarely and only. To the extent that richer people adopt this, it's mostly for signaling reasons and not because it affords the…

> it's mostly for signaling reasons

This presumes rich people never have good motives and any appearance of morality or civic-mindedness they might show is a self-aggrandizing sham. This seems unlikely.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#127

Post by taurath »

oefrha wrote: post #99
cma wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there buses?

I used to live in Palo Alto. There’s VTA (bus) and Caltrain. Stops are few and far between so getting to and from the stops are in and of itself a problem. Buses tend to arrive every 15 minutes (or longer) I believe? Pretty infrequent. And outside peak hours there’s usually like one Caltrain an hour, so missing one really sucks. I had a colleague who had to travel frequently between Stanford and Berkeley (slightly un…

Yup - and everything is 2 stories or less. Nothing gets built, not because of demand, but because zoning laws. There’s no reason other than the city of Palo Alto won’t allow tall buildings to be built - the less that is built the more wealth homeowners and real estate investors get.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#128

Post by Pfhreak »

Clubber wrote: post #105
hokkos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentiving rich people to buy expansive tech (and still at lost for the riches) help the technologies to ride the cost curve and bring it to the masses.

People who pay more than $8500 in taxes can benefit from the tax break. I'm not sure I'd consider that rich.

That represents an income of at least $70,000/year, assuming only the standard deduction and single. If you are married, it's closer to $100,000 income. That puts you at the 62th and 77th percentile, at a minimum to get the full tax deduction.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#129

Post by jandrese »

Clubber wrote: post #105
hokkos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentiving rich people to buy expansive tech (and still at lost for the riches) help the technologies to ride the cost curve and bring it to the masses.

People who pay more than $8500 in taxes can benefit from the tax break. I'm not sure I'd consider that rich.

Even if your taxes aren't that high you can roll the remainder of the credit forward to next year.

Re: Tesla’s new Solar Roof costs less than a new roof plus solar panels

#130

Post by amayne »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #110
hokkos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incentiving rich people to buy expansive tech (and still at lost for the riches) help the technologies to ride the cost curve and bring it to the masses.

The masses don't own houses to put these roofs on. Because of concentration of wealth and return on capital exacerbating that concentration. Because of rent seeking pyramid schemes. Which I imagine artificially restricts demand for improvements like solar panel roofs: who has more inventive to invest in things like solar panel roofs? Owner occupants who are in it for the long term, or rent seeking landlords just tryi…

>The masses don't own houses to put these roofs on.

64% of Americans own the home they live in.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home-ownership_in_the_United...

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