Gmail marking email from me as spam • Hacker News Board

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#221

Post by muststopmyths » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

rapind wrote: post #199

the_pwner224 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. Google's spam models freaking suck donkey dick. I use Fastmail but my university uses Google for email. A service we use (Piazza, class Q&A) sends notifications via email. Over the years I have gotten probably about 1k email notifications from them, and replied to a few of them too. Google h…

I'm not defending gmail, but I will say that some users simply suck (unintentionally). I bet some of your peers are just hitting the spam button instead of simply deleting the email, generating a bad reputation for the sender. I've seen this with my SaaS. We ONLY send transactional emails like purchase receipts and login links (using postmark). We're very intentional about not sending anything remotely resembling mar…

>Yet I still get the occasional user who will flag their purchase receipt as spam when all they really mean to do is delete it.

Maybe gmail shouldn't have the spam button right next to delete :)

At least that's better than web Outlook's invisible, until you click on the sender, microscopic disposition buttons. I can't count the number of times I've deleted an email instead of opening it.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#222

Post by oselhn » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:08 PM UTC

tomp wrote: post #147

the_pwner224 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. Google's spam models freaking suck donkey dick. I use Fastmail but my university uses Google for email. A service we use (Piazza, class Q&A) sends notifications via email. Over the years I have gotten probably about 1k email notifications from them, and replied to a few of them too. Google h…

Your comment prompted me to go through my GMail spam folder. I noticed 4 emails (out of 100) that weren't spam, including one from Blue Origin (!), 2 from a mailing list that's usually delivered to my Inbox, and 1 from an online shop (confirming my purchase).

Did the same thing on work email and found only messages from gitlab. But only 10% of those messages were marked as spam the others were in inbox so I did not notice. This convinced me not to trust gmail antispam.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#223

Post by vidarh » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

jen_h wrote: post #208

vidarh wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vast majority of messages in my spam folder are not spam on Gmail at the moment. Most of them are from providers I've semi-regularly tried to get it to recognize as not spam for months or years. Of course Gmail also outright rejects a lot of stuff at the SMTP stage, so their filters are better than they look, but the amount of misclassification is extremely frustrating.

I have this issue with OSSEC messages (automated messages from an Open Source IDS). Same thing, too, have been marking them as “not spam” for years. I think it’s because I don’t always review them...:/ But just because you don’t always open a message class doesn’t mean it’s spam, Google!

At one place we even had them start bulk-rejecting messages for our Google Apps domain from a whitelisted source.

The entire point of the whitelisting was to allow our internal mail server to forward transactional messages to addresses on our own domain, so it was not even that it was ever reported as spam by anyone, or ever hitting external addresses where I'd understand if Google was more trigger happy.

It was ridiculous realising that they basically had no way for even paying customers to tell them that "that e-mail server we told you is ours and we always want to receive all e-mail from no matter how spammy you think it is, using the mechanism you say it there to do exactly that, well, we really mean it". Instead it'd randomly just stop working. [this is a few years ago; who knows, maybe they've fixed it]

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#224

Post by perennate » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:09 PM UTC

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #202

Avamander wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My low volume server can send mail very nicely. You can't however do your job half-assed, lack of strong SPF/TLS/DKIM isn't okay from both Google's and anti-spam perspective.

If you would have actually read the link in the post you're replying to, you would know that Gmail is not accepting mail from me despite that I've spent a huge amount of time in verifying that everything is configured correctly. Also: please stop spreading unsubstantiated claims about your magical server magically sending mail past Gmail's spam filters. There's virtually no chance of that being true, and if it someho…

> Also: please stop spreading unsubstantiated claims about your magical server magically sending mail past Gmail's spam filters. There's virtually no chance of that being true, and if it somehow was true, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I'm sure most people who run low-volume mail servers here have no problems sending to Gmail. I don't know why you think this is an extraordinary claim -- I can understand that they often block legitimate mail like in your case, but that doesn't mean that everyone has the same issue. I have occasional issues sending to Gmail but most of the time they accept it and don't mark it spam.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#225

Post by mav3rick » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:13 PM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #215

dageshi wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially HN with every single Google related post nowadays. Good or bad, people hate Google, they hate it the way they used to hate Microsoft, they see everything it does as being nefarious. People ignore the email spammers, SEO spammers, automated password crackers and blame google for the solutions they put in place to combat those things. It's impossible to reason with them, honestly I think it's just b…

I am not an email spammer, an SEO spammer, an automated password cracker, or a jaded failed Google canidate. I have my mailserver configured in pretty much an optimal way, with all the special bells and whistles, have never sent spam, and never will. Gmail refuses to deliver my mail, so please don't lump me in with malicious people and then say my concerns should just be ignored.

"pretty much an optimal way".

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#226

Post by dageshi » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:20 PM UTC

throwaway2048 wrote: post #215

dageshi wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is essentially HN with every single Google related post nowadays. Good or bad, people hate Google, they hate it the way they used to hate Microsoft, they see everything it does as being nefarious. People ignore the email spammers, SEO spammers, automated password crackers and blame google for the solutions they put in place to combat those things. It's impossible to reason with them, honestly I think it's just b…

I am not an email spammer, an SEO spammer, an automated password cracker, or a jaded failed Google canidate. I have my mailserver configured in pretty much an optimal way, with all the special bells and whistles, have never sent spam, and never will. Gmail refuses to deliver my mail, so please don't lump me in with malicious people and then say my concerns should just be ignored.

And is your server sitting on the same IP range as those that do? Do you know?

Google provides a service to its users, they don't provide a service to you.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#227

Post by throwaway2048 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:21 PM UTC

perennate wrote: post #224

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you would have actually read the link in the post you're replying to, you would know that Gmail is not accepting mail from me despite that I've spent a huge amount of time in verifying that everything is configured correctly. Also: please stop spreading unsubstantiated claims about your magical server magically sending mail past Gmail's spam filters. There's virtually no chance of that being true, and if it someho…

> Also: please stop spreading unsubstantiated claims about your magical server magically sending mail past Gmail's spam filters. There's virtually no chance of that being true, and if it somehow was true, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I'm sure most people who run low-volume mail servers here have no problems sending to Gmail. I don't know why you think this is an extraordinary claim -- I can un…

>I'm sure most people who run low-volume mail servers here have no problems sending to Gmail.

Based on direct experience and >testingLots of people test gmail with their personal accounts, and think that email to gmail in general is delivered.

In my experience, it basically never is if you are a small sender.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#228

Post by throwaway2048 » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

mav3rick wrote: post #225

throwaway2048 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not an email spammer, an SEO spammer, an automated password cracker, or a jaded failed Google canidate. I have my mailserver configured in pretty much an optimal way, with all the special bells and whistles, have never sent spam, and never will. Gmail refuses to deliver my mail, so please don't lump me in with malicious people and then say my concerns should just be ignored.

"pretty much an optimal way".

Believe it or not, its possible to carefully look into things and check them, but I understand its much easier to be smug and assume that its my fault.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#229

Post by dingdingdanggg » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:35 PM UTC

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

> Google's making us play by their rules

Yeah well, they offer a free service and you use it. They own their network and they can decide what they allow.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#230

Post by PretzelFisch » Fri, Oct 25, 2019, 2:42 PM UTC

rapind wrote: post #199

the_pwner224 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable. Google's spam models freaking suck donkey dick. I use Fastmail but my university uses Google for email. A service we use (Piazza, class Q&A) sends notifications via email. Over the years I have gotten probably about 1k email notifications from them, and replied to a few of them too. Google h…

I'm not defending gmail, but I will say that some users simply suck (unintentionally). I bet some of your peers are just hitting the spam button instead of simply deleting the email, generating a bad reputation for the sender. I've seen this with my SaaS. We ONLY send transactional emails like purchase receipts and login links (using postmark). We're very intentional about not sending anything remotely resembling mar…

I don't think it's always the user. The gmail and outlook UI makes report as spam more prominent then delete. In addition it's easy for accidental inclusion in a users batch spam report because of poor multi select UX.