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Gmail marking email from me as spam

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Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#71

Post by inferiorhuman »

djsumdog wrote: post #65
inferiorhuman wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're really curious setup DMARC as well and check out the reports. I used to work for a company that did DMARC analytics, and after setting it up for my personal domain it's kind of interesting to see who's trying to impersonate you (or who's getting spam purportedly from you).

None of the big providers send DMARC messages. Google doesn't. Microsoft doesn't. The only DMARC messages I've ever gotten were from Yahoo and mail.ru. Google/Microsoft don't send DMARC reports because it would make it easier for spammers to know they had gotten past those filters. It's easier to just drop everything they don't like silently. It's why e-mail is terribly unreliable today (much more reliable if you DO…

Google/Microsoft don't send DMARC reports because it would make it easier for spammers to know they had gotten past those filters.

Is that a recent thing? I was getting DMARC reports from both Google and Yahoo as late as April this year. Around then I pared down my Sonic account and they ate a bunch of stuff that I was too lazy to setup again including DMARC. While Google and Yahoo make up most of the reports I got this year, I also see some from Microsoft and AOL from 2017. 163 (China) used to send out reports too.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#72

Post by nindalf »

com2kid wrote: post #61

Gmail's ML models categorize plenty of Google's own emails as spam. I honestly don't think they are nefarious, just overly insistent. I remember email before Gmail's spam filters. Everyday was a task of deleting spam first then responding to emails.

This is the consequence of the spam filters doing a good job. I too remember when consumers would clamour for better spam detections and different companies would hawk products that purported to do so.

But now that spam detection mostly works well for most people, it’s a forgotten issue. Now we have people on this thread questioning Google’s authority to filter spam because from their PoV, Google isn’t adding much value to begin with.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#73

Post by Santosh83 »

Sandstorm should have really caught on. We need to make self hosting drop dead simple so that even non-technical people can do it. The power of these mega-tech companies can only be whittled down if we take collective, well thought out action. And it is not just about tackling power imbalances. Owning your own data is a fundamental aspect of our digital lives which ought to have become simple and natural, given Moore's Law and the phenomenal device capabilities in recent years, yet somehow we are going the other way. Even as our devices become ever more capable (hardware wise), the software is moving to ever more to the Cloud and we're being locked out of the full capacities of our devices except in the narrow realm of media consumption.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#74

Post by em-bee »

we can argue all day long about why this happens. more interesting for me would be, what can i do about it.

i have noticed the same problem. since a few weeks, i can no longer reach gmail from my mail-server.

my mail volume is to small that marking mails non-spam would help. besides i nowadays mainly use email for situations where i don't have an alternative way to communicate, so when i email someone, and it gets rejected, there is no backchannel to let the recipient know about that.

reading through that thread, one solution suggests itself: don't host your email server with a provider that tolerates spammers.

does anyone have recommendations?

where can i host my own mailserver, and not suffer from being stuck in an IP block that is on any blacklists?

are there other solutions?

can i use a reputable mailserver as a proxy? so that mail gets forwarded to my own server, and mail i send out gets sent through them, but i still do all the filtering, routing, management of email addresses, storage, etc, of emails on my own server?

i know this is technically possible but which servers out there support that?

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#75

Post by kruczek »

viraptor wrote: post #52
LeoPanthera wrote: post #7

The attitude of the replies he gets lower down in the thread is shocking. I hope whatever mailing list that is doesn't have any kind of good reputation, because it seems like the consensus opinion there is shockingly anti-cooperative, anti-internet, "me before the network", even going as far to say "if Google thinks you're a spammer then you probably are". How things have changed.

That's a meeting of technical and moral view. I'd love for corps to have no impact on people, for distributed knowledge and resources, for everyone being in control of their data, and general socialist direction. But the technical answer to "why is my email landing in spam" is still "follow best practices, build up reputation, and you'll be fine... unless Google decides otherwise, which they can". Posting about how u…

> Posting about how unfair that is is not going to change anything.

It won't change anything, unless enough people complain. And even just recognizing that things are not right is the first step required to make a change. Of course, I won't hold my breath waiting for Google to change their ways, but I think it is in fact important to make a clear note their is not the right way. As the guy writes:

"Maybe it is just so, that big companies ignore small external senders who are sending mail to them, simply because they can, and we can't do anything about this (however, it's always worth trying to check whether we really can't - and that's what I'm doing by posting my issue on this list). But even if we can't do anything about this, we should not pretend that everything is OK, they are correct, and it's the sender's fault. No, on the contrary: we should state it explicitly and clearly that this behaviour is not OK. Maybe we have to live with it; but it doesn't make it less bad."

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#76

Post by hotgeart »

sdan wrote: post #8

Google's making us play by their rules: 1. Our ML models see that your emails spam? You're spam. 2. You're using Tor or a VPN? Here's 10 reCaptcha's. 3. Don't use Google Webmaster or use AMPs? Good luck finding your page on the 1st page. 4. Youtube video includes education hacking tutorials? Demonetized. Obviously some alternatives are moving to Fastmail and using Duck Duck Go, but we need Google to stop this "my way…

> Before they become a huge conglomerate which controls major aspects of many people's lives

That's already the case.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#77

Post by Gravityloss »

Santosh83 wrote: post #73

Sandstorm should have really caught on. We need to make self hosting drop dead simple so that even non-technical people can do it. The power of these mega-tech companies can only be whittled down if we take collective, well thought out action. And it is not just about tackling power imbalances. Owning your own data is a fundamental aspect of our digital lives which ought to have become simple and natural, given Moore…

Since people specialize, we have organized societies and legal systems so that people can use services with reasonable trust.

With new technology, the laws of course lag. You see a wild west, then monopolies etc before it settles.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#78

Post by donmcronald »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #71
djsumdog wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of the big providers send DMARC messages. Google doesn't. Microsoft doesn't. The only DMARC messages I've ever gotten were from Yahoo and mail.ru. Google/Microsoft don't send DMARC reports because it would make it easier for spammers to know they had gotten past those filters. It's easier to just drop everything they don't like silently. It's why e-mail is terribly unreliable today (much more reliable if you DO…

Google/Microsoft don't send DMARC reports because it would make it easier for spammers to know they had gotten past those filters. Is that a recent thing? I was getting DMARC reports from both Google and Yahoo as late as April this year. Around then I pared down my Sonic account and they ate a bunch of stuff that I was too lazy to setup again including DMARC. While Google and Yahoo make up most of the reports I got t…

Aggregate or forensic? I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a forensic report.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#79

Post by irjustin »

I would argue in this narrow case - I would not point to nefarious undercurrents.

Google's ML mail spam models are that way because there's too many bad actors. Email, even in 2019, still extremely valuable.

If you can get into people's email inbox, there's still quite high conversion rate - better than clicks/videos on a pure percentage basis. Even the author wants to reach out to people in a cold fashion.

As a gmail user, I 100% appreciate keeping my inbox extremely clean. Google's spam filter is a welcome addition.

As a business owner, I'm continuously having to do things so I don't end up in spam. Less images, specific wording and the list goes on.

I can't have it both ways. I would not be on Gmail if it was like yahoo. My goodness... my parent's inbox, on yahoo, makes me anxious.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#80

Post by vfclists »

The legal naivete and indifference of otherwise technological savvy people is mind boggling.

It is not the task of mail providers to block or hide email considered to be spam. It is the job of the end users, ie the email providers cusstomers and their software.

Consider physical junk mail, ie the type that comes through the letter box. The post office does not decide what is junk mail or not, their job is to deliver it and it is the customer's job to discard it.

The proper thing is for the mail provider to tag the emails their systems consider to be junk and deliver it the customers inbox and let the customers decide.

Google's customers are the problem, not Google itself.

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