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Gmail marking email from me as spam

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Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#61
Gmail's ML models categorize plenty of Google's own emails as spam.

I honestly don't think they are nefarious, just overly insistent.

I remember email before Gmail's spam filters. Everyday was a task of deleting spam first then responding to emails.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#62

Email is not the same it has been for years/decades. These days you need to use all the security tools available, most notably TLS and DKIM, set a strict DMARC policy, and don't do anything unexpected such as sending lots of emails out of the blue. Email is all about reputation: it can take a lot of effort to build trust, but just one bad move and it's all gone.

> Email is all about reputation: it can take a lot of effort to build trust, but just one bad move and it's all gone.

Is it though? That may well be true for small individuals, but the Spam I get these days comes via the large mail providers, Amazon SES, sendgrid etc, and nobody in their right mind is going to block them. "Too big to block" is a thing now, "too big to have to care about abuse reports" is too.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#63
I thought this had been getting better. At least more e-mail from my personal server has been getting through to its destinations. I've written about this too a few years back:

https://battlepenguin.com/tech/how-google-and-microsoft-made...

..and I reference the Hostile E-mail Landscape blog post by Ribton (really good btw).. which is gone now and redirects to some bullshit software site (there are archives of it).

I've got DKIM, SPF, DMARC, reverse DNS for IPv4 and v6 and I still don't have the volume to show up in the postmaster tools Google has.

My own e-mail server occasionally has spam come through. I really don't care. I sometimes mark it to be learned, but honestly I'd rather have some SPAM get through than get HAM marked and placed in the big fucking SPAM bucket I never check.

But for big providers and dangers like ransomware, this isn't an option. So we have shitty unreliable e-mail (even on gmail back in 2012; I had delivery issues to other people on gmail).

Where does the blame go? The 1% of people who give scammers money, get ransomware infections and click on everything? Over aggressive spam filters? The lack of real e-mail server diversity? Who the fuck knows anymore.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#64
I sent a text format mail containing a couple of innocent words and a youtube link of a completely innocent clip to my wife. Gmail in their infinite wisdom classified it as spam. Obviously users need to be protected from watching youtube clips.

I used the smtp server of my ISP. I'm know that it is tightly monitored and not the source of any significant amount of real spam.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#65
post #29

Gonna second whoever said: Use DKIM. I actually check Spam daily now, after finding support emails whose logs got snagged in the dragnet & personal stuff — even email from my Dad got shunted to Spam. I still tip the hat, though, to Google, whose algorithms are wise enough to assiduously stow both the “jump on a call” and “donate to my campaign” emails to spam.

If you're really curious setup DMARC as well and check out the reports. I used to work for a company that did DMARC analytics, and after setting it up for my personal domain it's kind of interesting to see who's trying to impersonate you (or who's getting spam purportedly from you).

None of the big providers send DMARC messages. Google doesn't. Microsoft doesn't. The only DMARC messages I've ever gotten were from Yahoo and mail.ru.

Google/Microsoft don't send DMARC reports because it would make it easier for spammers to know they had gotten past those filters. It's easier to just drop everything they don't like silently. It's why e-mail is terribly unreliable today (much more reliable if you DO NOT use Microsoft or Google).

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#67
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Moving to Fastmail" is such a popular alternative that if they ever get to any kind of reasonable size we'll be in the same position all over again. That should not be the suggestion. Many smaller providers encourages the competition necessary for an open network, not a small number of huge providers.

I've been using Fastmail for about 5 or 6 years now. My only problem is the 1GB mailbox size limit I have. Maybe I should upgrade. Otherwise I love it. Their webmail client is phenomenal and works with mobile and desktop. I don't like their Android app but I haven't tried it in a year. Their web client is so good I don't need an app for them. I do see mail going to spam though. It's never bugged me that much.

You can also just use the native imap client provided by your operating system. The beauty of using a provider and service that adheres to open email standards.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#68

OP already received a decent reply, > A quick look at Talos Intelligence reports a 1600% increase in email from your domain over the last day; email reputation os 'neutral' at this time. Not good, not bad, but neutral. > Also you're on OVH, about which a quick look through the list's archives will possibly prove instructive. It's reasonably likely (as likely as not) that you're running on an IP in a neighbourhood wit…

Yeah, this debate have spread to quite a lot of the threads on the mailop mailing list recently.

It's simply one of those things one has to deal with if one operates an email server.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#69

Email is not the same it has been for years/decades. These days you need to use all the security tools available, most notably TLS and DKIM, set a strict DMARC policy, and don't do anything unexpected such as sending lots of emails out of the blue. Email is all about reputation: it can take a lot of effort to build trust, but just one bad move and it's all gone.

> Email is all about reputation: it can take a lot of effort to build trust, but just one bad move and it's all gone. Is it though? That may well be true for small individuals, but the Spam I get these days comes via the large mail providers, Amazon SES, sendgrid etc, and nobody in their right mind is going to block them. "Too big to block" is a thing now, "too big to have to care about abuse reports" is too.

Yes, the big mail providers are an issue. But it's also an issue the other way around. We use Postmark at my place of work and unfortunately, that doesn't prevent all of our mail from being marked as spam. Some mail gets blocked because it comes from the same IP address as some spam mail. I know that Postmark puts effort in preventing spammers to use their service but Amazon probably doesn't care a lot about people misusing SES.

Re: Gmail marking email from me as spam

#70
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but it's not expensive. there are other free email services, or you can pay for decent email hosting for a few bucks a month.

Could you post examples? In my opinion free email services either belong to other big corporations or provide lower quality service than gmail. Few bucks a month add up and can be considered expensive by many. I don’t like google and I pay for a different email account. I just wanted to remind that gmail may be hard to quit and that costs are subjective.

> Few bucks a month add up and can be considered expensive by many.

I pay around 3$/month for Fastmail, I don't think it's expensive, an email address is the primary communication method everyone uses nowadays and it's useful every day.

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