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Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

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Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#51

I'll admit it is rather weak sauce, but the one time I smoked salvia was enough to put me off psychadelics forever. The entire room that I was in morphed into a Roadrunner and Coyote canyonland for about five minutes, just as Chuck Jones would have it drawn up. No desire to repeat that kind of disassociation from reality.

Salvia is not weak sauce and is something that very few people enjoy compared to LSD and mushrooms.

That depends on how it is used. Smoking raw and untreated leaves provides a very minor and brief high. A tea (the traditional technique), or treated/fortified leaves, is where it becomes potent.

The parent commenter likely used fortified leaves given that they had such a distressful experience.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#52
post #44
post #24

I’ve used LSD and psilocybin, though not for many years, and have had minor, infrequent, non-disruptive hallucinations. They usually consist of momentary visual deformations of repeating patterns, e.g., tiles on a BART platform will appear to shift or move. These visual variances are a small taste of a full-on trip, in which everything can shift, move, or dance. It’s nice to see others have shared this experience. Re…

Counterpoint: The YouTube engineer who, over the summer, took LSD and went on a stabbing rampage. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/davidmack/youtube-engin...

That's probably more related to working for YouTube where the comments are absolute vitriol. Actually reading this article this person was clearly not mentally equipped for a trip, ended up taking 2 additional doses after already "becoming delusional" and then going on a rampage when his friends tried to get him to stop. All because they rented a house on the fourth of July and thought what better thing to use to party with loud explosions than the most introspective and revelatory substance ever discovered by mankind. What? How about a little respect for the aperture in the navel of the Universe? I wouldn't chug a liter of Ayahuasca and go mow the lawn, what sort of world do people think this is? No consequences is the lie that got us here if you ask me. Of course there are consequences. Nurture altruistic intentions.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#53
I've gone through multiple periods of doing lots of LSD in my life. In my senior year of high school I probably tripped once a week with anywhere from 1-4+ hits, while also smoking pot every day.

After about 3 months I had developed perma-tracers (I could draw shapes in the air with a lit cigarette), after about 6 months I saw after-images at night, usually while driving. (For example, a ghostly day-glow purple stop sign behind the actual stop sign). It wasn't enough to be actually disruptive to my life, besides the slight anxiety about it.

At about 9 months I developed a stutter which increased in frequency over the next few months, until it was an actual speech impediment. I stopped smoking pot and decreased my LSD use to a few times a year and it all went away within 6-9 months and never came back. It has never come back with LSD use, but it /did/ come back during a year in my 30s where I smoked a lot of pot and used no psycehdelics, so take that anecdata as you will.

These days I notice that if I do LSD more than about 4 times within 1 month, I'll develop some tracers and visual distortions that persist very slightly when sober, and more persistently when only stoned on pot. Tiled bathrooms breathe a little, lights sparkle and shimmer. But it always resolves within about a month of abstinence and has never caused me any trouble.

There are no (as far as I can tell) cognitive distortions or anything else while sober, and the visual distortions range from mildly amusing to slightly alarming. I've had tons of panic attacks (unrelated in my life) but none of them had the quality of any sort of "flashback", just plain old anxiety.

There has been a little bit (but not a ton) of research done on HPPD, and bluelight and other harm reduction forums had good discussions with those dealing with it for many years. For many (most) people it resolves on its own.

My completely out of my ass theory is that it basically works like water making a groove in dirt in that some neural pathways get overly "primed" to fire and fall into a habitual pathway.

/Most/ people I know that have either experimented heavily with LSD /or/ with intensive meditation have reported some sort of visual or auditory after effects that persist while sober and resolve on their own, but most people I've talked to haven't been too bothered by it.

That's not to discount the people that have experienced disruption to their life from HPPD, but this definitely seems to be the exception to the rule of either not having any persisting effects or not finding them that bothersome.

edit: typos

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#54
post #45
post #4

I have always steered clear of psychedelics. I know some people are super into legalization, but I wager it's a bit irresponsible considering we barely understand their long (and short, for that matter) -term effects. There's some evidence where psychedelics (particularly LSD) may have triggered schizophrenia in some patients[1]. Musician Daniel Johnston (he passed away a few months ago) is a notable case. [1] https:…

The harm done by criminal penalties exceeds the harm done by any possible bad effects of using psychedelics by a huge margin. To claim otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

This claim isn't obvious at all (let alone its converse being intellectually dishonest). You're acting as if justice and law enforcement is made up of solely either stupid or nefarious people.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#55
post #8

So I wonder: psychedelics make you more likely to believe woo, and more likely to have certain classes of visual hallucinations. But some people believe woo without taking psychedelics, and some people have those same visual hallucinations without taking psychedelics. Interesting, I believe it and have always wondered about this. I think people's sensory experiences vary wildly by nature, but we have no access to the…

> Your athletic ability can vary from Usain Bolt to completely uncoordinated; some people have photographic memories (e.g. Lebron James apparently); some people can factor large numbers in their heads (computation), or recite huge strings of digits (non-episodic memory).

I'm going to quibble with you. When you say that individual humans vary widely, you're mostly assuming a baseline scale of typical human variation. Which is basically begging the question. Of course the fastest or smartest people look very extreme, when you're implicitly comparing them to typical people.

Usain Bolt is very fast for a human. But he's slower than the average housecat. On the flip side some people have really good memories. But even the dumbest humans manage to remember a huge number of symbols compared to what a chimp's capable of. Same for virtually everything else you listed. Food taste, aesthetic preferences, auditory capabilities, intoxicant consumption, etc.

Normal human variance is swamped by variance between different animal species. This is mostly invisible to us, because most of our day-to-day interactions are with other people. Not exotic organisms.

So I would guess just the opposite. I believe that sensory experiences across different people are very likely to be substantially similar. At least compared to an alien species, or AI, or even just an intelligence from a distant evolutionary branch (like an octopus).

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#56
post #27
post #8

So I wonder: psychedelics make you more likely to believe woo, and more likely to have certain classes of visual hallucinations. But some people believe woo without taking psychedelics, and some people have those same visual hallucinations without taking psychedelics. Interesting, I believe it and have always wondered about this. I think people's sensory experiences vary wildly by nature, but we have no access to the…

Iirc those symbols in your vision with your eyes closed aren’t hallucinations. They’re reflective of the blood pressure and flow around your eye/eye lid. Though I definitely have an ability to relax by paying attention to them. I can’t offer a source for this though.

The colors themselves aren’t. However if you have even mild HPPD they take more complex forms (esp faces) and switch rapidly, like one face morphing into another

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#57

Alright, I'll bite. I developed HPPD in 2017, and I've been seeing unusual things for a bit over 2 years. The HPPD was triggered by dropping on the order of 1000-1400 micrograms of LSD - and for context a reasonable dose was 50 micrograms. This was way too much, and I fried for a few days. I'm not sure when I came down because HPPD decided to show up and it took me a while to realize that the HPPD was, well, persiste…

I have never heard Tinnitus described as a neurological condition. I had pretty bad Tinnitus as a result of a jaw injury. It has gradually faded but it made sleeping difficult for a very long time.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#58
This sounds quite in tune with some of Daniel Dennett's ideas also, especially from 'Consciousness Explained'.

The gist is that our consciousness is only, and all, that we can say, or in any other way act on the world. So if people really believe in the things they say, those things must be quite real to them.

And perhaps visual hallucination come from some incomplete separation of the 'inner' visual loop - thoughts, memories - from the outside visual information.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#59
post #54
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The harm done by criminal penalties exceeds the harm done by any possible bad effects of using psychedelics by a huge margin. To claim otherwise is intellectually dishonest.

This claim isn't obvious at all (let alone its converse being intellectually dishonest). You're acting as if justice and law enforcement is made up of solely either stupid or nefarious people.

It is Congress, which makes the laws, that is made up of stupid/nefarious individuals.

Re: Some people who take psychedelics continue hallucinating indefinitely

#60

Alright, I'll bite. I developed HPPD in 2017, and I've been seeing unusual things for a bit over 2 years. The HPPD was triggered by dropping on the order of 1000-1400 micrograms of LSD - and for context a reasonable dose was 50 micrograms. This was way too much, and I fried for a few days. I'm not sure when I came down because HPPD decided to show up and it took me a while to realize that the HPPD was, well, persiste…

50 mcg is a pretty small dose. Not as small as micro-dosing, but like first timer being extra cautious sized.

1000-1400 mcg is like 5-7 solid doses, which is no joke, but it's not 20-30 doses like you sort of imply.

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