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VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

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Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#151

Post by simonh »

mikestew wrote: post #142
blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

Their vehicles are beautiful Their vehicles are so bland-looking that a buddy of mine stated a few years ago that he'd never seen a Tesla. Even a few years ago, if you worked at Microsoft like he does, I guarantee you parked next to one some time this week, and saw at least one on your way to or from work today. To quote another MSFT friend: "buying a Tesla is like a rite of passage around here." I'll bet he remember…

Most cars are bland looking for a reason though.

Most VWs are pretty bland. They're maybe slightly at the more recognisable end of the spectrum, but only incrementally, because that's the look that works at mass market scale. So given that, why does their mainstream, bet the company EV have to look like something from a 90s SF action movie?

The point about Teslas looking like other cars is that being an EV should be a normal, everyday thing. That's exactly the future that Tesla is aiming for. Whether a car is bland looking, weird looking or whatever should be entirely decoupled from whether it's an EV or not. They are orthogonal concerns. The weird look of this car is a worrying sign that VW does not get this, and is therefore missing the plot in a near future where EVs will be just cars.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#152

Post by bumblebee4 »

nextos wrote: post #141
jliptzin wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What car looks good to you?

While I love what Tesla is doing, I also think their external design is their least appealing part. I think there are many fine examples of great car designs. Recently, I can think of Mini, Fiat 500, Alfa 147, Alfa MiTo, Golf Mk I & II, Lamborghini Gallardo, BMW 3 series E21-E46...

Doesn't the Tesla 3 try too much to look like a Porsche?

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#153

Post by dsfyu404ed »

r00fus wrote: post #143
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The model 3 is a kammback. It's just much more gradual than a Prius because they have much more length to work with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammback

The original comment metioned Tesla could do better than a 0.23 cd. I'm just wondering how that's possible.

More rounded front and more boat-tail rear. Small wheels and tires would help too. It would wind up looking 90s up front and 2000s hyper-miler out back. It would certainly not look how we expect a 2019 luxury car to look. When you're courting new car buyers with good credit you can't build something that's all function and no form.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#154

Post by DamnInteresting »

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

My sense is that automakers believe that low-emissions cars will not sell well unless people can acquire them as a means of signalling virtue and wealth. In other words, unless the car is instantly identifiable as a fancy new EV, a large subset of potential buyers will lack interest.

I suspect this is mostly myth propped up by apocryphal assertions that Prius sold well due to its distinct look. But I am just a long-time curious observer, not an expert.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#155

Post by PopeDotNinja »

izacus wrote: post #66
viklove wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like a Golf... It's a very classic design for VW.

More like the Polo, the cheapest and smallest of the VWs. For me it's also not an appealing look for such an expensive vehicle.

Isn't a European Polo virtually identical to the American Golf?

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#156

Post by clouddrover »

raaaaraaaa12 wrote: post #22

VW is betting hard on EV cars - I guess that German goverment will cooperate and will invest heavily into EV infrastructure ...otherwise it will be huge failure. VW will finally solve problem with other brands within VW group - Skoda and Seat are sucessful brands and often cannibalize VW models (Skoda Kodiaq vs VW Tiguan, VW Passat vs. Skoda Superb etc...). VW presented recently strategy for next few years where they…

> Skoda is allowed to have only 2 EV models in next few years

The Skoda Vision iV is not a bad looking EV:

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O72uf9DNakk

- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-f1g9xl6W_E

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#157

Post by gniv »

izacus wrote: post #66
viklove wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like a Golf... It's a very classic design for VW.

More like the Polo, the cheapest and smallest of the VWs. For me it's also not an appealing look for such an expensive vehicle.

I think the pictures don't do it justice (maybe b/c of the short front?). Strictly by dimensions, it's bigger than the Golf.

From wikipedia:

ID.3:

  Length 4,262 mm (167.8 in)
  Width 1,809 mm (71.2 in)
  Height 1,552 mm (61.1 in)
Golf:

  Length 4,255 mm (167.5 in)
  Width 1,799 mm (70.8 in)
  Height 1,452 mm (57.2 in)
Also much longer wheelbase (2,765 vs 2,637).

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#158

Post by Alex3917 »

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

> WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky?

Because they're targeting early adopters who want to buy a car that looks like a science project. Once they move onto targeting early mainstream, it will start looking more like other cars. Just look at how the Prius changed its look over time.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#159

Post by NeedMoreTea »

lucideer wrote: post #102
blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

As others here have mentioned, this is obviously subjective. I could be wrong but I think beyond that it's also highly regional/cultural. Teslas look awful to me; they remind me of so many other examples of recent bland US car design: particularly Ford, and with a few hints of the sort of 90s-mazda-esque Corvettes of the past 10-15 years. All very popular aesthetically but to me seem a bit lacking in anything unusual…

Tesla cars remind me particularly of Ford Europe's bland but also ugly phase of the early 90s, like the first model Mondeo that wasn't sure what it wanted to be, and the fugly frog-faced last model Granada Scorpio. Or Mazda of the same era.

They have the same ability to combine total inoffensive blandness, with some detail or corner that just looks plain wrong, ugly, the wrong size or damaged with vehicle lines that neither align nor complement each other. The Tesla Model 3 ends up looking like a poor attempt at a parts bin special, as though nothing at all was originally intended for the Model 3. Of course some actual parts bin specials were very successful - like the first model Land Rover Discovery.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#160

Post by Tsiklon »

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #155
izacus wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like the Polo, the cheapest and smallest of the VWs. For me it's also not an appealing look for such an expensive vehicle.

Isn't a European Polo virtually identical to the American Golf?

Nope - the Polo is a good bit smaller than the Golf, it's a Supermini. Think of it like how the Golf used to be back 1970's. The Polo is in the same class as the Ford Fiesta, Mini and Fiat 500.
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