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VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

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Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#141

Post by nextos »

jliptzin wrote: post #127
lucideer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others here have mentioned, this is obviously subjective. I could be wrong but I think beyond that it's also highly regional/cultural. Teslas look awful to me; they remind me of so many other examples of recent bland US car design: particularly Ford, and with a few hints of the sort of 90s-mazda-esque Corvettes of the past 10-15 years. All very popular aesthetically but to me seem a bit lacking in anything unusual…

What car looks good to you?

While I love what Tesla is doing, I also think their external design is their least appealing part.

I think there are many fine examples of great car designs. Recently, I can think of Mini, Fiat 500, Alfa 147, Alfa MiTo, Golf Mk I & II, Lamborghini Gallardo, BMW 3 series E21-E46...

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#142

Post by mikestew »

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

Their vehicles are beautiful

Their vehicles are so bland-looking that a buddy of mine stated a few years ago that he'd never seen a Tesla. Even a few years ago, if you worked at Microsoft like he does, I guarantee you parked next to one some time this week, and saw at least one on your way to or from work today. To quote another MSFT friend: "buying a Tesla is like a rite of passage around here."

I'll bet he remembers the singular time he saw that Ferrari 458 that parks in building 32, though.

Personally, Ford Taurus, Tesla 3/S, same difference: nothing wrong with it, nothing memorable.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#143

Post by r00fus »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #98
r00fus wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has some of the best drag coefficients in the industry (0.23 cd for Model3). Only some specialized versions of other vehicles get better than that.

The model 3 is a kammback. It's just much more gradual than a Prius because they have much more length to work with. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kammback

The original comment metioned Tesla could do better than a 0.23 cd. I'm just wondering how that's possible.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#144

Post by p1mrx »

kmonsen wrote: post #101
sremani wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The unfortunately truth is many of the Electric Vehicles centered sites in US are Tesla fan sites more or less. If EVs have to truly succeed they have to be coming from more than one brand. - Mitsubishi Outland PHEV - Hyundai Ionic series - Chevy BoltEV Lincoln Aviator PHEV, Prosche Cayenne Hybrid covering luxury SUV segment. There are tons of EVs and PHEVs out there which pretty much cover a large swath of vehicle s…

Don't forget Kia, and for Hyundai I think Kona is more important than Ionic. I have the Kia EV, and I don't love it, but I really like it. For the price it is great.

The Kia Niro & Hyundai Kona are the top-rated EVs on Consumer Reports right now. The main problem is their relatively-limited availability.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#145

Post by lucideer »

jliptzin wrote: post #127
lucideer wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others here have mentioned, this is obviously subjective. I could be wrong but I think beyond that it's also highly regional/cultural. Teslas look awful to me; they remind me of so many other examples of recent bland US car design: particularly Ford, and with a few hints of the sort of 90s-mazda-esque Corvettes of the past 10-15 years. All very popular aesthetically but to me seem a bit lacking in anything unusual…

What car looks good to you?

The two current sibling comments are pretty on the mark. Alfas, Land Rovers. I quite like some of the BMWs.

Fiat and Citroen are, on the more reasonably priced end of the spectrum, doing innovative/interesting things that are at the very least not bland.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#146

Post by clouddrover »

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

> WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky?

The ID.3 looks like a nice hatchback to me. Here's Volkswagen's ad for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPjvgXWA78E

The augmented reality heads up display looks interesting.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#147

Post by clouddrover »

bproven wrote: post #68
blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

yeah, I don't get it either. Although this one is not that bad. (tinfoil hat) Seems like they want this to fail to keep ICE and all the supporting industries alive for more $$. After all service/parts is where the real money is...

> Seems like they want this to fail to keep ICE and all the supporting industries alive for more $$

That doesn't make sense. They are not spending tens of billions of euros on a project they want to fail.

In any case, the world's two biggest car markets (Europe and China) are introducing stricter fleet emissions standards. If car companies want to stay in the car business they have to electrify to meet the new standards.

It's a matter of urgency for Volkswagen so they can avoid as many EU emissions fines as possible. Paying fines is just dead money. You're much better off investing that money in new car models, which is what Volkswagen is doing.

Toyota's in a better position to meet the standards because they sell a lot of hybrid vehicles.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#148

Post by dawnerd »

danhak wrote: post #53

It's worth noting that VW's 2018 target for EV's was 300,000 units. They fell 217,000 units short: https://www.wired.com/2010/07/vw-300k-evs-annually-2018/ I want the company to succeed at EV's more than anyone but if the rollout of the e-tron is any indication it is not going to be smooth sailing: https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/19/18508066/audi-etron-delay...

Is that why VW was doing very aggressive discounts on the eGolfs a couple months ago? I got mine, a 2019, for dirt cheap, little over 12k new before the tax credits.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#149

Post by clouddrover »

deckard1 wrote: post #129

> The ID.3, scheduled to hit the streets by midyear, is the first of at least 70 electric cars in VW’s pipeline. This whole article is weird. Are we supposed to pretend the e-Golf hasn't existed for years? > While the ID.3, priced from around $30,000 with a range of 200 miles or more, is aimed at countering the threat from Tesla’s Model 3, its stiffest competition will come from gasoline-powered cars such as VW’s own…

> Americans still have reservations against hatchbacks for some silly reason.

They're not selling the ID.3 in the US initially.

Europe will get the ID.3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPjvgXWA78E

And the US will get the ID.4 which is a bigger car on the same MEB platform: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-frankfurt-mot...

Longer term they probably will make both cars available in both markets.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#150

Post by harshaw »

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

I have the hybrid Pacifica and it is a great car. The transmission and electric drive is amazing. I think the car sells itself, as I suspect the ID-3 will. But I don't think the ID-3 will be available in the US :(
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