VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback • Hacker News Board

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#81

Post by lukifer » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

I drive a Gen-1 Volt (which I love), and it's as sporty and sedan-y as a car can get while still being a hatchback. There's no reason that a non-dorky design can't be made in this form factor.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#82

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:37 PM UTC

njarboe wrote: post #76

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of those factors are actually beneficial for the corporations however; less parts and people means less logistical overhead eating away at profits. The increase in reliability is a questionable loss too as most consumers dump their current car every 6 years regardless if it still works or not in their effort to keep up with the Joneses. Beside battery wear will put a hard limit on car lifespan anyway since those…

The original model S could do a 90 second battery swap. Not sure about other Tesla models, but I sure hope they are still designed for easy battery replacement. I would guess they are as Elon Musk is hoping for the cars to eventually last a million miles.

They are no longer designed for replacement at that speed. That was designed to capture the full value of California ZEV credits, and is no longer necessary.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#83

Post by nosrednehnai » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

bproven wrote: post #68

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

yeah, I don't get it either. Although this one is not that bad. (tinfoil hat) Seems like they want this to fail to keep ICE and all the supporting industries alive for more $$. After all service/parts is where the real money is...

I don't think your tinfoil hat theory is so far-fetched. Like every other car company before Tesla, they've optimized for ICE cars. From their perspective, the ideal scenario would be that the electric car trend dies out as a fad, leaving their core business (ICE cars) unaffected.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#84

Post by r00fus » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #69

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

Aerodynamics dictates some form of Kammback. Tesla is leaving potential efficiency gains on the table by going with a "normal" shape.

Tesla has some of the best drag coefficients in the industry (0.23 cd for Model3). Only some specialized versions of other vehicles get better than that.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#85

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

>This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius

The Pruis is highly optimized for minimal aerodynamic drag. It's no coincidence the wound up with roughly the same shape. The Model 3 is a similar shape but more sleek because they have more length to work with.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#86

Post by turbinerneiter » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

bproven wrote: post #68

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

yeah, I don't get it either. Although this one is not that bad. (tinfoil hat) Seems like they want this to fail to keep ICE and all the supporting industries alive for more $$. After all service/parts is where the real money is...

Oooooooooooor, they are just good engineers and shape the car around the drive train. The id3 is spacious like a big car in the footprint of a small car. No engine means you can move the cabin forward, hatchback means extra trunk space and headspace for the second row.

Everyone in Europe is happy about getting more space in a smaller car. And this compact car shape is common here as well.

The car is completely normal and good looking. Limousines and SUV are not the only valid shapes for cars.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#87

Post by dsfyu404ed » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:42 PM UTC

nosrednehnai wrote: post #83

bproven wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I don't get it either. Although this one is not that bad. (tinfoil hat) Seems like they want this to fail to keep ICE and all the supporting industries alive for more $$. After all service/parts is where the real money is...

I don't think your tinfoil hat theory is so far-fetched. Like every other car company before Tesla, they've optimized for ICE cars. From their perspective, the ideal scenario would be that the electric car trend dies out as a fad, leaving their core business (ICE cars) unaffected.

It's pretty far fetched. There's money in service but not for VW or any other OEM. The dealers make money on service. The OEM makes money on cars and financing. It wouldn't surprise me if subtracting warranty from parts sales resulted in a net negative for many models. I'm painting with a broad brush here but that's the gist of it. Going all EVs would simplify a heck of a lot of things for the OEMs.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#88

Post by Ninn » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

blhack wrote: post #59

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products. This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book. edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica mi…

> This is one of the things that Tesla nailed.

And

> Model 3 - Bug Edition.

Choose one...

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#89

Post by r00fus » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

sremani wrote: post #35

beat wrote: post #26

I'm planning to buy a new car in two years, and I'm really excited about the possibilities of electric cars then. What I really want is a mid-sized hatchback, with interior form similar to my current Subaru Forester (and a zillion other similar light-duty quasi-SUVs). It's such a popular form factor, and Tesla isn't there on it.

The unfortunately truth is many of the Electric Vehicles centered sites in US are Tesla fan sites more or less. If EVs have to truly succeed they have to be coming from more than one brand. - Mitsubishi Outland PHEV - Hyundai Ionic series - Chevy BoltEV Lincoln Aviator PHEV, Prosche Cayenne Hybrid covering luxury SUV segment. There are tons of EVs and PHEVs out there which pretty much cover a large swath of vehicle s…

So it's Tesla's fault they're so far ahead?

We kept being told that Tesla's lunch was going to get eaten by the "big boys" but that's been 8 years coming and we're still... waiting.

Disclosure: I own a non-Tesla EV.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#90

Post by Invictus0 » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:43 PM UTC

lnsru wrote: post #54

raaaaraaaa12 wrote: post #22

VW is betting hard on EV cars - I guess that German goverment will cooperate and will invest heavily into EV infrastructure ...otherwise it will be huge failure. VW will finally solve problem with other brands within VW group - Skoda and Seat are sucessful brands and often cannibalize VW models (Skoda Kodiaq vs VW Tiguan, VW Passat vs. Skoda Superb etc...). VW presented recently strategy for next few years where they…

I am really sad about Skoda. Their current Superb is a wonderful car with great design. Design of current Passat is ugly as hell. If one cannot afford Audi A6, Skoda Superb is the only choice. After defeat device story VW group is anyway dead to me. I don’t want to finance these criminals. And I don’t believe in their EV initiative. They do it only to make people forget the story with defeat device.

Please try not to be so cynical. A $50B investment in EV is obviously not just a PR whitewash.