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VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

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Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#51

Post by emptysands »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #10
ardit33 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla has 2, so that's 4x in just three years. There is no reason for VW to not build more, if the demand is there. If the demand is not there, then it can become a financial disaster.

> There is no reason for VW to not build more, if the demand is there. If the demand is not there, then it can become a financial disaster. The problem is that EVs are going to cannibalize the legacy auto industry. It takes far less people [1], far less parts (typical combustion engine has ~2k moving parts, a Tesla powertrain has ~17), just a much smaller supply chain overall [2] to deliver EVs. And these EVs will la…

Will also be driven by demand. EVs are already cheaper to operate. If they are also cheaper to produce and support, then the alternative is not competitive.

The result is then just delayed by historic capital and reallocation.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#53

Post by danhak »

It's worth noting that VW's 2018 target for EV's was 300,000 units. They fell 217,000 units short:

https://www.wired.com/2010/07/vw-300k-evs-annually-2018/

I want the company to succeed at EV's more than anyone but if the rollout of the e-tron is any indication it is not going to be smooth sailing:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/19/18508066/audi-etron-delay...

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#54

Post by lnsru »

raaaaraaaa12 wrote: post #22

VW is betting hard on EV cars - I guess that German goverment will cooperate and will invest heavily into EV infrastructure ...otherwise it will be huge failure. VW will finally solve problem with other brands within VW group - Skoda and Seat are sucessful brands and often cannibalize VW models (Skoda Kodiaq vs VW Tiguan, VW Passat vs. Skoda Superb etc...). VW presented recently strategy for next few years where they…

I am really sad about Skoda. Their current Superb is a wonderful car with great design. Design of current Passat is ugly as hell. If one cannot afford Audi A6, Skoda Superb is the only choice. After defeat device story VW group is anyway dead to me. I don’t want to finance these criminals. And I don’t believe in their EV initiative. They do it only to make people forget the story with defeat device.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#55

Post by lnsru »

ravedave5 wrote: post #52
jojo14 wrote: post #49

This is vaporware. VW are stuck. They are not able to innovate. VW EVs are always tomorrow, whereas actual manufacturers do deliver EVs now : Nissan and Renault besides Tesla.

Porsche (a division of VW) is not vaporware in the EV space.

Porsche isn’t mainstream car. It’s a toy for riches, not for salaried employees.

Edit: I was wrong. I could lease Macan for ~700€/month.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#56

Post by ohples »

This is an interesting video that talks about the issues facing the German car industry with the move to EV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hcXjVxaKzv4

One of the things they talk about that I find interesting is how different EVs are from ICE cars.

I think we all assume that the companies that have gotten good at making cars, should be able to adapt to EVs, but it's a fundamentally different problem space. EVs and ICE may look alike on the outside, but are very different on the inside. I can't think of a good analogy, but if someone has one please share.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#59

Post by blhack »

WHY do these vehicles always have to look so freaking dorky? This is one of the things that Tesla nailed. Their vehicles are beautiful, and look like first-class products.

This, the "ID-3" looks like a prius. I'm sure it's a fine car, and I really do love EVs, but man oh man I wish the designers would take a page from Tesla's book.

edit: to be clear, my current car (that my wife and I share) is a chrysler pacifica minivan, which I believe to be one of the best cars I've ever owned. I have no problem with "dorky" vehicles, I am a dork. It's just that if you want to break out of enthusiasts buying your cars for the novelty, you have to make them appealing.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#60

Post by bigYahnz »

ravedave5 wrote: post #52
jojo14 wrote: post #49

This is vaporware. VW are stuck. They are not able to innovate. VW EVs are always tomorrow, whereas actual manufacturers do deliver EVs now : Nissan and Renault besides Tesla.

Porsche (a division of VW) is not vaporware in the EV space.

Neither is the Audi, but as of yet, nobody has been able to compete with the best gas-powered cars of their respective price brackets like Tesla has. Everyone has A LOT of catch up to do if they care about getting enthusiasts to make the switch. Which...they probably couldn't give two shits about :(
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