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VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

bloomberg.com

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Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#11

Post by pgeorgi »

treypitt wrote: post #9

Shifting to hybrid or full EVs was laudable five or ten years ago, increasingly less so since then. Neither producers nor consumers in the auto market care about LCA's that look at REMs and battery impact. Plus you're only as clean as your electric grid. The only solution to the climate catastrophe was a massive change in the economy, supply chain, and western consumer culture. Hybrid car technology was a viable wedg…

> Plus you're only as clean as your electric grid.

"The Zwickau plant is supplied with electricity by Volkswagen Kraftwerks GmbH. For a few years now, this company has been offering pure green electricity sourced from hydroelectric power plants, wind farms, and solar parks. This green electricity is TÜV-certified. Even though it costs a little more, Volkswagen Sachsen (with the Zwickau, Dresden, and Chemnitz sites) has been using this green electricity since April 2017. “It is completely CO2-neutral“"

https://electrek.co/2019/07/22/vw-zwickau-factory-electric-c...

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#12

Post by boznz »

ardit33 wrote: post #5
CameronNemo wrote: post #2

Is it just me or does that seem low? How many ICE factories do they have currently? How many are they adding or renovating in these next couple years?

Tesla has 2, so that's 4x in just three years. There is no reason for VW to not build more, if the demand is there. If the demand is not there, then it can become a financial disaster.

Demand will be there once you can charge on every corner and they start making cars that don't cost double the gas equivalent

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#13

Post by organsnyder »

pgeorgi wrote: post #11
treypitt wrote: post #9

Shifting to hybrid or full EVs was laudable five or ten years ago, increasingly less so since then. Neither producers nor consumers in the auto market care about LCA's that look at REMs and battery impact. Plus you're only as clean as your electric grid. The only solution to the climate catastrophe was a massive change in the economy, supply chain, and western consumer culture. Hybrid car technology was a viable wedg…

> Plus you're only as clean as your electric grid. "The Zwickau plant is supplied with electricity by Volkswagen Kraftwerks GmbH. For a few years now, this company has been offering pure green electricity sourced from hydroelectric power plants, wind farms, and solar parks. This green electricity is TÜV-certified. Even though it costs a little more, Volkswagen Sachsen (with the Zwickau, Dresden, and Chemnitz sites) h…

That doesn't account for the energy used to charge the cars during their lifetime, though.

Thankfully, in general the United States energy grid is getting less CO2-intensive.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#16

Post by pgeorgi »

organsnyder wrote: post #13
pgeorgi wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plus you're only as clean as your electric grid. "The Zwickau plant is supplied with electricity by Volkswagen Kraftwerks GmbH. For a few years now, this company has been offering pure green electricity sourced from hydroelectric power plants, wind farms, and solar parks. This green electricity is TÜV-certified. Even though it costs a little more, Volkswagen Sachsen (with the Zwickau, Dresden, and Chemnitz sites) h…

That doesn't account for the energy used to charge the cars during their lifetime, though. Thankfully, in general the United States energy grid is getting less CO2-intensive.

That's outside the car makers' control.

The public charging stations in my town (in Germany) are powered (hooked up to our common electricity network, but in terms of energy bought for them) using hydro power from a nearby river.

Any car owner could use their own generator using coal or oil to power their private charging point though. Generally speaking the only remedy to that is to make CO2 intensive power cost prohibitive. Our government decided just today to attach a CO2 tax to sales of energy sources with CO2 residues, so let's see how that develops.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#17

Post by d1zzy »

AtlasBarfed wrote: post #3

This is good news, but VW is ultimately motivated by the threat of Dieselgate litigation and fines. Let's hope this isn't some flash in the pan, Tesla has shown the feasibility, but an EV future really needs one of the big conglomerates onboard as well. Multiple companies competing will drive batteries well under ICE drivetrains economically in short order.

I don't know how much Dieselgate has affected VW's bottom line but what I do know is that as a consequence of the scandal:

- new cars now come with 6 years warranty which is more than anything anywhere in that price range

- their second hand car program is great, includes 2 years of manufacturer warranty. Last time I wanted to buy a compact I very seriously considered getting a 2015 VW Golf diesel, it includes all future required updates to reduce harmful emissions and it has all the nice advantages of a diesel (high torque, low RPM, nicer IMO engine noise). I ended up deciding against it because the newest VW diesel is 2015 and they started supporting Apple Car/Android Auto in 2016 models.

All in all like I said I don't know if Dieselgate hit their bottom line but around here it seems the streets have a lot more VW cars (a lot of e-Golfs too) since the scandal. No wonder since their cars are now such a great deal.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#18

Post by Kutta »

treypitt wrote: post #9

Shifting to hybrid or full EVs was laudable five or ten years ago, increasingly less so since then. Neither producers nor consumers in the auto market care about LCA's that look at REMs and battery impact. Plus you're only as clean as your electric grid. The only solution to the climate catastrophe was a massive change in the economy, supply chain, and western consumer culture. Hybrid car technology was a viable wedg…

The only feasible way to have cars and trucks in a zero-net-emission economy is to make them electric. Unless you want to scrap all cars and trucks, the electric versions must eventually be developed and mass-produced.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#19

Post by meritt »

calvinbhai wrote: post #14

how reliable are these projections? Replace VW with TSLA and the Tesla naysayers / TSLAQ will claim the company is doomed...

You're curious whether or not it's realistic for an 82-year-old automotive company with 122 worldwide production plants who produced 11.1M cars last year compared to Tesla's 254k can have just 8 facilities producing electric cars in ~2 years from now?

That seems like a fairly reasonable goal to me.

Re: VW’s $50B Bet on an Electric Hatchback

#20

Post by NikolaNovak »

d1zzy wrote: post #17
AtlasBarfed wrote: post #3

This is good news, but VW is ultimately motivated by the threat of Dieselgate litigation and fines. Let's hope this isn't some flash in the pan, Tesla has shown the feasibility, but an EV future really needs one of the big conglomerates onboard as well. Multiple companies competing will drive batteries well under ICE drivetrains economically in short order.

I don't know how much Dieselgate has affected VW's bottom line but what I do know is that as a consequence of the scandal: - new cars now come with 6 years warranty which is more than anything anywhere in that price range - their second hand car program is great, includes 2 years of manufacturer warranty. Last time I wanted to buy a compact I very seriously considered getting a 2015 VW Golf diesel, it includes all fu…

Interesting - for context, can you share where these policies are in place? I don't believe the 6y new / 2y used is in place where I'm at.
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