Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy • Hacker News Board

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#111

Post by torben-friis » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:31 AM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #71

The only iOS 13 bugs I’ve been bitten by are: 1. Safari’s back button now seems to lose the position on the previous page - sometimes. 2. The share sheet has a row of Messages contacts that I didn’t ask for, don’t want, and can’t turn off - and it creates the risk of super-inappropriate sharing, because all my work contacts are eligible for being on this row, seemingly at random.

I have one where notifications aren't clickable (tappable?) on the lock screen, and I need to turn the screen on and off several times for them to work or just go to the app manually. Strangely enough they can be dismissed through swiping, the click event registers but just does nothing.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#112

Post by saagarjha » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:33 AM UTC

steve19 wrote: post #85

ChrisCinelli wrote: post #67

I did not work for Apple but this article describes exactly what I was thinking. Apple has very waterfall cycle. Everything is planned year after year to be released for the September event. When the deadline approach teams realized that are behind and they need to overwork. And when people get tired and under pressure, they usually introduce even more bugs. The article also nails the solution: a more Agile workflow.…

They could simply decouple the apps from the OS, like Android. Safari and Mail.app do not need to be tied to OS releases. Android OS releases do not get nearly as much fanfare because a lot of core functionality is decoupled from the OS: app store(s), mail clients, browsers, todo lists, even the text messaging apps and some security frameworks. Which of course is exactly why Apple keeps everything in one big release.…

Safari can actually be updated separate from the OS.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#113

Post by saagarjha » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:35 AM UTC

Svoka wrote: post #45

dplgk wrote: post #32

After doing some iOS/Mac development, I'd say some bugginiess is caused by changing APIs and behaviors inflicted by Apple, expected to be absorbed/dealt with by developers. They mercilessly do this with every release and no doubt that affects their internal projects. Also, xcode has gone the way of iTunes and ObjC was always a huge pain. It's a really hostile environment to develop in, where you're having to play cat…

Wow. My experience is opposite. Been in iOS development for over 10 years already, little less for Android. App made for iOS still works with very minor adjustments, while on Android it’s a mess. We was forced to change build system several times, breaking changes and just silly API renames, service depreciations, generations of push services, forcing firebase and AndroidX, change of permission model, of concurrency…

> Honestly, I can’t even name single such change for iOS.

It's not horrible, but UINavigationController is quite infamous for changing internally with each release and behaving strangely with apps until you utter the right incantation to make it work right.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#114

Post by parasubvert » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:36 AM UTC

nihahs wrote: post #90

saagarjha wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, it is if you run Mojave, as you need to upgrade the entire system to get Safari 13. You don't; Safari 13 runs on macOS Mojave (and macOS High Sierra, if you're still using that).

I'm using High Sierra 10.13.6 (17G5019)and I don't have an update for Safari 13

Check the Apple App Store updates section, I believe that houses the High Sierra update, whereas Mojave uses the system update.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#115

Post by saagarjha » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:38 AM UTC

ChrisCinelli wrote: post #74

saagarjha wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Make it opt-in and require a privacy review every time something like this goes in?

If you make it opt-in, the company will not get a lot of reports. If you want to get enough data, they should be opt-out as the others.

Opt-in analytics fail to account for people who turn them off because they don't like opt-in analytics. So you might be getting more data, but it might not necessarily be any more representative.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#116

Post by saagarjha » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:41 AM UTC

ChrisCinelli wrote: post #88

envolt wrote: post #63

> apart from a few specific areas, Apple doesn’t do a lot of automated testing. Apple is highly reliant on manual testing, probably too much so. That's the last thing I expected to know about such a big company.

They should have more automated tests. But considering this article does not surprise me at all. That also mean probably almost no exploration/fuzzy tests. The kernel may be one of the few exceptions. Considering the secrecy infra-team I would expect almost no integration tests. That also means that Apple products are pretty bad when it come to security contrary to what Apple's marketing wants you to believe.

Considering that they own the entire stack, I honestly think that one of the unofficial integration tests for lower-level components is when the apps sitting on fail to work.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#117

Post by saagarjha » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:43 AM UTC

Someone wrote: post #106

dep_b wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes very little sense for a resource constrained company to rewrite stuff that just works in Swift especially when it has a lot of low-level code. What they do sometimes is adding a Swift-friendly API layer around the Objective-C(++) code. Newer libraries that are not too low-level oriented might get written in Swift nowadays.

”It makes very little sense for a resource constrained company to rewrite stuff” I don’t think ”for a resource constrained company” makes a difference there. That’s good, because I have a hard time thinking of Apple as resource constrained.

Apple doesn't actually have a lot of engineers on most projects.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#118

Post by mrweasel » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:49 AM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #71

The only iOS 13 bugs I’ve been bitten by are: 1. Safari’s back button now seems to lose the position on the previous page - sometimes. 2. The share sheet has a row of Messages contacts that I didn’t ask for, don’t want, and can’t turn off - and it creates the risk of super-inappropriate sharing, because all my work contacts are eligible for being on this row, seemingly at random.

I can't help getting the feeling that they should make two versions of iOS, one for the average user/teenager, and one for professional use.

Really they mostly just need to remove a boat load of features to make it a work phone.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#119

Post by ljsocal » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:51 AM UTC

Apple stores are highly tuned to and responsive to customer experience in-store. The same is true with their AppleCare support online and via phone. The metric they focus on is Net Promoter Score. Maybe this same model could be applied to the OS, Apps and services. Apple user experience would be improved methinks.

Re: Why iOS 13 and Catalina Are So Buggy

#120

Post by wrboyce » Wed, Oct 23, 2019, 7:59 AM UTC

jl6 wrote: post #71

The only iOS 13 bugs I’ve been bitten by are: 1. Safari’s back button now seems to lose the position on the previous page - sometimes. 2. The share sheet has a row of Messages contacts that I didn’t ask for, don’t want, and can’t turn off - and it creates the risk of super-inappropriate sharing, because all my work contacts are eligible for being on this row, seemingly at random.

FWIW re #2 if you do accidentally click on an iMessage contact it brings up the message compose dialog and you have to use the regular send button. I too shared your fear, and have accidentally clicked the wrong contact.