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We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

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Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#91

Post by glangdale »

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

I appear to have kicked off a frenzy of folks eurosplaining to me that they personally ride in deep snow, howling gales, and see no reason that people in hot climates (including hot humid climates with near 100% humidity, or extreme heat events) can't cycle everywhere at all times. Also they will all be happily cycling when they are 80 just like Grandpa Josef and Great-grandma Helga, etc. Congrats, but the statistics are not going to be with you world-wide.

As I said, I'm pro-cycling. Good for you, all you hardy souls. But it is a seriously boneheaded point of view to imagine that cycling is going to be more important as a mode of transport than public transport in most of the world under the conditions that exist now.

There's a large plurality - even in the totally cycle-happy countries - of people that don't ride, and that's a majority past a certain age. These people will get a small benefit (aside from cleaner air and fewer cars on the road, which is nice) from cycling infrastructure. Conversely, a drastic improvement in public transit infrastructure benefits almost everyone - cyclists are pedestrians and transit users some of the time, and they will also benefit from getting cars off the road.

Frankly a lot of folks are confusing their hobby with good public policy.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#92

Post by missosoup »

Fricken wrote: post #70
missosoup wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you've never experienced a 40-45c day. You sound like one of the regular tourist types we get who dismiss how seriously we take summer conditions and then end up with heatstroke and skin peeling off from sunburn. The 'self-created airflow' INCREASES the rate at which you gain temperature. Windchill is only 'chill' when the ambient air temperature is lower than your core temp. To cycle on a summer day, you nee…

Evaporation can cool things to below ambient air temperature. It's why we sweat.

The point is at air temps >39c, increasing airflow around you increases apparent temperature.

The more wind you experience (or the faster you ride your bike) in those conditions, the more work your body needs to do for maintaining homeostasis via sweating. You will certainly not perceive a >39c wind as a 'cooling' wind in any conditions, and the faster that wind is the hotter it will feel.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#93

Post by [deleted] »

fergie wrote: post #82
paganel wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Copenhagen doesn’t have 40 degrees Celsius heatwaves in the summer nor winter blizzards that make you feel like you’re in Siberia, while places like the US East Coast (and I guess even the Chicago area in the Midwest) have them both.

Copenhagen might not quite have 40C heatwaves, but it certainly has winter blizzards that make you feel like you’re in Siberia.

[deleted]

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#94

Post by odiroot »

glangdale wrote: post #91
glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

I appear to have kicked off a frenzy of folks eurosplaining to me that they personally ride in deep snow, howling gales, and see no reason that people in hot climates (including hot humid climates with near 100% humidity, or extreme heat events) can't cycle everywhere at all times. Also they will all be happily cycling when they are 80 just like Grandpa Josef and Great-grandma Helga, etc. Congrats, but the statistics…

> eurosplaining

As a European myself this made me laugh hard. Yes, people here have a tendency to see everything in black and white and be really religious about their way of life.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#95

Post by Karrot_Kream »

missosoup wrote: post #67
donjoe wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been in these temps. Not in Australia though so can't talk about UV protection. Sunscreen helped me in other environments though. Doesn't 'Tour down under' happen during Australian summer months? Somehow they manage, too.

I am sure that highly fit 20-30 year olds who train for marathons can manage. I am not sure how that translates to everyday commute for tens of millions of people of all fitness levels and ages. This 'if I can do it then surely everyone can do it' attitude is incredibly myopic given the scale of the issue. You represent less than 1% of the population (A total of 1% of Aussies report cycling to work once a month or mo…

Unfortunately, trying to make a solution bend to 100% of the population is equally myopic. Right now, car-based transportation networks have one set of tradeoffs that disadvantages one group of people. As silly as it would be, switching to a bicycle-only network would disadvantage another group of people. Rethinking of transportation mode-share is an exercise in decreasing and shifting the disadvantages and allocating different advantages, climate change being one concern.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#96

Post by dvdkhlng »

inertiatic wrote: post #51
skrebbel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Bakfiets: https://www.babboe.nl/bakfietsen/big

That's cool, how do I carry that up the stairs to my apartment?

I'd assume large cargo-bikes are usually built to survive being left outside. Rust-protected frame and stainless steel bolts and screws.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#97

Post by fiblye »

urban_winter wrote: post #60
missosoup wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try riding to work on a 45 degree australian summer day when the UV index is so high that 5 mins is enough to get serious sunburn.

The UV issue is a red herring. There are many reasons why people need to be outside and cycling is only one of them. UV is a manageable problem for walkers and outdoor workers, cyclists are not a special case. I guess that you've never been on a bike on a very hot day. It's much, much more pleasant to be ventilated by your self-created airflow on a bike than it is to to have sweat pouring down your back as you walk a…

Look up skin cancer rate maps. It’s no joke in Australia. People die and often.

And then you have most populated regions in Asia with 40 degree summers with air so humid that taking a deep breath makes you cough. People still ride bikes, but there are days where it’s deadly to do so for long distance commuting. That’s not including typhoon periods where you’re liable to be whacked with debris and die (because work isn’t canceled for any reason).

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#98

Post by vhold »

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

It's not a zero sum game.

Improving bicycling also improves public transit and walkability usually because bicycles take up so much less room than cars so buses have more space, and it's extremely rare for a bicycle to injure a pedestrian, but it happens hundreds of times a day just in the US alone with cars.

Also bicycle infrastructure is way cheaper to build and maintain than car infrastructure. And even when bicycle infrastructure is totally busted for awhile, people find a way around, where as with cars if there is any blockage it becomes an incredibly high priority emergency.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#99

Post by quickthrower2 »

missosoup wrote: post #64
urban_winter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UV issue is a red herring. There are many reasons why people need to be outside and cycling is only one of them. UV is a manageable problem for walkers and outdoor workers, cyclists are not a special case. I guess that you've never been on a bike on a very hot day. It's much, much more pleasant to be ventilated by your self-created airflow on a bike than it is to to have sweat pouring down your back as you walk a…

I guess you've never experienced a 40-45c day. You sound like one of the regular tourist types we get who dismiss how seriously we take summer conditions and then end up with heatstroke and skin peeling off from sunburn. The 'self-created airflow' INCREASES the rate at which you gain temperature. Windchill is only 'chill' when the ambient air temperature is lower than your core temp. To cycle on a summer day, you nee…

Been in Sydney for a bit. When it’s 40+ the most I can do outside is 5 minutes walking in the shade. It’s not fun. I wouldn’t cycle unless it was electric assisted.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#100

Post by everyone »

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

Earth, a few decades ago, before the dominion of cars?

Earth, today, in Denmark / Netherlands.

Kneejerk reactions like yours, without looking into the issue at all, are the main hurdle.

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