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We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

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Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#61

Post by greggman2 »

deanclatworthy wrote: post #26
dcolkitt wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest counterpoint here is what about families? A mom with three young kids in tow pretty much needs a car to get around. Or elderly people? I can't really take my 90-year old grandma out to dinner if it requires her to bike her way to the restaurant. Thinking about non-car based transportation methods is great. But the reality is that large segments of society are always going to need some sort of car-based op…

You provide adequate public transport. I’m totally with you though that in many cases this isn’t feasible. I hope in the future we share our cars more often, but I can’t see this happening until they’re mostly autonomous.

IMO autonomous cars are going to massively increase car usage so car issues are going to get worse not better. Maybe we won't need parking lots but if autonomous cars happen people will use them for anything and everything. No more need for couriers just pop the package/document in a car. Want to run a business out of your house? No need to delivery people just pop your product in a car. Cook for sick relative, pop the meal in a car. Need grandma to watch the kids tonight, pop them in car.

Maybe some of that will go to drones but the point is that a device that shows up at your door and goes to any other door in the city for opens a huge number of new opportunities.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#62

Post by flexie »

glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

I don't mind the weather in Copenhagen where the amount of people who bikes every day exceeds the amount of people who take public transportation every day by around 50% (1). Weather in Copenhagen is rarely very cold or very warm. But Copenhagen weather is not "startlingly good all year-round". It rains quite often and temperatures are often close to zero or sub zero. And it's windy all the time. It even snows a few days a year.

I don't think it's a question of either or. It's a question of prioritizing both bikes, and public transportation, and electric cars and scooters.

Sadly, even in Copenhagen, where there are dedicated bike highways, elevated bike bridges, and generally very good biking conditions (mostly flat city), the amount of people who use cars every day far exceeds the amount of people who bike.

1: Page 11: https://www.regionh.dk/til-fagfolk/trafik/Analyser-og-rappor...

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#63

Post by donjoe »

missosoup wrote: post #54
donjoe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah... Bad weather isn't an argument though. I'm faster with my bike no matter the weather. Especially when it's snowing outside. Gosh, snow slows cars down massively. I love this time of the year: no one tends to speed any more since drivers are afraid of crashing their cars.

Try riding to work on a 45 degree australian summer day when the UV index is so high that 5 mins is enough to get serious sunburn.

Been in these temps. Not in Australia though so can't talk about UV protection. Sunscreen helped me in other environments though.

Doesn't 'Tour down under' happen during Australian summer months? Somehow they manage, too.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#64

Post by missosoup »

urban_winter wrote: post #60
missosoup wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try riding to work on a 45 degree australian summer day when the UV index is so high that 5 mins is enough to get serious sunburn.

The UV issue is a red herring. There are many reasons why people need to be outside and cycling is only one of them. UV is a manageable problem for walkers and outdoor workers, cyclists are not a special case. I guess that you've never been on a bike on a very hot day. It's much, much more pleasant to be ventilated by your self-created airflow on a bike than it is to to have sweat pouring down your back as you walk a…

I guess you've never experienced a 40-45c day. You sound like one of the regular tourist types we get who dismiss how seriously we take summer conditions and then end up with heatstroke and skin peeling off from sunburn.

The 'self-created airflow' INCREASES the rate at which you gain temperature. Windchill is only 'chill' when the ambient air temperature is lower than your core temp.

To cycle on a summer day, you need to slather yourself in SPF-40 sunscreen including underneath clothing, wear SPF clothing, and make sure to be constantly drinking water. And when you get to your destination you're definitely going to need a shower. I'll take public transport over that, thanks. So does the majority of people.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#65

Post by goto11 »

enriquto wrote: post #55
glangdale wrote: post #46

I'm curious as to what planet you'd have to be living on to think that if we have billions of dollars to spare on huge transport infrastructure projects that aren't cars, that it should go to bikes and not public transport + walkability. I'm guessing it's a special magic planet with startlingly good weather year-round, without disabled people, where everyone gets to age into spry Euro-oldsters. Not wanting to kick of…

OK that public transportation is essential. But your climate argument is a bit shaky. Denmark and the Netherlands have comically bad weather all year round, yet bike transportation thrives on their cities. I'd say that an important factor of the viability of bikes is whether the city is flat. For example, biking in sunny and hilly Lisbon can be very tiring.

Denmark and Netherlands does not have "comically bad weather" for cycling. Rather they have temperate coastal climates without extreme heat or extreme cold or heavy snowfall - ideal for cycling year round. Yeah they have rain, but you can easily protect against that. Wind is not a big deal inside cities.

It also helps that Copenhagen and Amsterdam are really flat cities.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#66

Post by inertiatic »

jerven wrote: post #58
inertiatic wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's cool, how do I carry that up the stairs to my apartment?

Same way you carry your car up the stairs park it in the bike garage or your car parking spot.

My car gets parked across the street from my apartment building.

Doesn't get stolen and doesn't care about rain.

My bike spent a single winter out on my balcony after we needed the space inside the apartment for baby stuff. It's now rusty in multiple spots.

My previous bike, I left on the small back yard of my last apartment, locked up. It got stolen a few months after I started doing that.

So again, this is not feasible for a lot of people, myself included, and it's very privileged to think that everyone has access to a garage next to their home.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#67

Post by missosoup »

donjoe wrote: post #63
missosoup wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try riding to work on a 45 degree australian summer day when the UV index is so high that 5 mins is enough to get serious sunburn.

Been in these temps. Not in Australia though so can't talk about UV protection. Sunscreen helped me in other environments though. Doesn't 'Tour down under' happen during Australian summer months? Somehow they manage, too.

I am sure that highly fit 20-30 year olds who train for marathons can manage.

I am not sure how that translates to everyday commute for tens of millions of people of all fitness levels and ages.

This 'if I can do it then surely everyone can do it' attitude is incredibly myopic given the scale of the issue. You represent less than 1% of the population (A total of 1% of Aussies report cycling to work once a month or more). Your views don't matter or don't apply for the other 99%.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#68

Post by enriquto »

inertiatic wrote: post #66
jerven wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same way you carry your car up the stairs park it in the bike garage or your car parking spot.

My car gets parked across the street from my apartment building. Doesn't get stolen and doesn't care about rain. My bike spent a single winter out on my balcony after we needed the space inside the apartment for baby stuff. It's now rusty in multiple spots. My previous bike, I left on the small back yard of my last apartment, locked up. It got stolen a few months after I started doing that. So again, this is not feas…

> My car gets parked across the street from my apartment building.

Offtopic, but this has to end. I do not understand how it is socially acceptable to put huge pieces of your private property on the public streets. You cannot just put your washing machine on the street because you have nowhere else to put it! Why can you do that with a car?

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#69

Post by flukus »

missosoup wrote: post #54
donjoe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yah... Bad weather isn't an argument though. I'm faster with my bike no matter the weather. Especially when it's snowing outside. Gosh, snow slows cars down massively. I love this time of the year: no one tends to speed any more since drivers are afraid of crashing their cars.

Try riding to work on a 45 degree australian summer day when the UV index is so high that 5 mins is enough to get serious sunburn.

Done in plenty of times, Queensland and Victoria, unless you're pasty white and have never stepped outside you aren't going to get burnt in 5 minutes, let alone seriously. I've done it with my normal cycling attire of a wife beater and shorts, still no burning. That's without any protection, but some sun screen, a hat and some long sleeves will prevent burning and save you from the long term skin cancer risks.

Re: We Need to Dream Bigger Than Bike Lanes

#70

Post by Fricken »

missosoup wrote: post #64
urban_winter wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UV issue is a red herring. There are many reasons why people need to be outside and cycling is only one of them. UV is a manageable problem for walkers and outdoor workers, cyclists are not a special case. I guess that you've never been on a bike on a very hot day. It's much, much more pleasant to be ventilated by your self-created airflow on a bike than it is to to have sweat pouring down your back as you walk a…

I guess you've never experienced a 40-45c day. You sound like one of the regular tourist types we get who dismiss how seriously we take summer conditions and then end up with heatstroke and skin peeling off from sunburn. The 'self-created airflow' INCREASES the rate at which you gain temperature. Windchill is only 'chill' when the ambient air temperature is lower than your core temp. To cycle on a summer day, you nee…

Evaporation can cool things to below ambient air temperature. It's why we sweat.
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