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Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

nytimes.com

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Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#51

Post by romaaeterna »

trhway wrote: post #50
ReggieJJJ wrote: post #32

It seems extremely prejudicial and even driven by a bigoted and hateful motivation to emphasize the purchaser of the fragment when the story is really about the person who is accused of illegally taking and selling the fragments. It would be like writing the headline like this "Oxford is Officially and International Illegal Historical Artifacts Dealing Organized Criminal Enterprise." if one were to have a bigoted bia…

>>The contract was made in 2013 between Dr. Obbink and Hobby Lobby Stores >extremely prejudicial ... to emphasize the purchaser of the fragment when the story is really about the person who is accused of illegally taking and selling the fragments. i think laws are pretty consistent everywhere in civilized world - knowingly purchasing stolen staff is a crime, and buying ancient texts from an Oxford professor instead o…

That anything was stolen is a new accusation. The accusations against Obbink previously have all been impropriety-related, related to dealing with the Hobby Lobby people at all.

It's rather surprising (perhaps "fantastical" ?) that all of the rumors turned up such a smoking gun after all these years. This is a case where the 80%/20% rule didn't apply, and the real answer turned out to be 150%.

Here's where things stood a few months ago: https://brentnongbri.com/2019/07/03/dirk-obbink-and-the-muse...

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#52

Post by cr0sh »

weberc2 wrote: post #49
ljf wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://rewire.news/article/2015/07/15/hobby-lobby-blocking-...

Does that article (and publication) strike you as trustworthy? Does it appear that the author and publication aspire to present a balanced perspective? Would you be persuaded if I linked to a Fox News (or similar) article on the issue?

You are aware that there are more articles on this topic than that singular one presented, right? This whole issue was discussed almost to literal death on various discussion boards years ago. An objective view of this issue doesn't paint HL in a good light, imho.

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#53

Post by LegitShady »

dahart wrote: post #42
zamadatix wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guidelines specifically call out linkbait titles: "please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait" so in the parent comments argument that the title is clickbait it certainly isn't "according to HN guidelines". I'd be interested in what the ratio of users that only know portions of the guidelines that are often repeated in comments vs those that have actually read through the guidelines.

> The guidelines specifically call out linkbait titles: That's true, they do. And the parent comment here claimed linkbait. The suggested guideline is to default to the original title first, and avoid editorializing by default , that's the spirit of the rule, and then if the title is egregious, try to fix the wording to be less misleading. There are lots of possibilities, one of them is that the submitter doesn't kno…

It was hyperbole more in keeping with the spirit of the issue than a suggestion for policy.

Your ad absurdum logical analysis of hyperbole isn't really interesting to me.

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#54

Post by simonklitj »

ctdonath wrote: post #21
simonklitj wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which ones? Primarily Christian?

Mostly Christian, yes. There are some Jewish relics, and a few other items. Much of the collection is very old/rare, seriously museum-level content & quantity. Content includes: Gutenberg Bible, first-printing King James Bible, Dead Sea Scrolls, metal-imprinted Torah, famous misprints ("thou shalt commit adultery"), jewel-encrusted Bible given by Yassar Arafat, bible illustrated by Salvador Dali, and lots of ancillar…

Oh, wow! Thanks. Would seriously love to see that.

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#55

Post by MisterTea »

romaaeterna wrote: post #22

The Obbink stuff has been on slow boil for a few years now. Part of the problem is that even ancient papyri texts aren't actually worth anything, unless they are really famous, but they are getting caught up by all the export regulations for gold and jewels (sometimes under new interpretations of law). Obbink has made some poor decisions, but I feel that the rules have changed on his watch. Also, while "Hobby Lobby"…

> (I wish I could read this article, but my usual NYT tricks aren't working.)

I use netsurf so I don't have to fiddle with things. The page just loads so I can read stuff and see pictures. Any minimalist browser should work.

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#56

Post by acomjean »

ReggieJJJ wrote: post #46
skywhopper wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are suggesting here that when purchasing such artifacts for a major museum collection, that the Hobby Lobby/Bible Museum owners have zero responsibility to verify the provenance of the artifacts and the legality of their sale. All they have to do is just not ask any probing questions, and they should be able to claim that "we didn't know they were stolen!" Sorry, but that's outrageous.

[flagged]

Possession of stolen goods is in fact a crime. It’s usually minor not prosecuted, but it does involve returning the stolen property.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_of_stolen_goods

There is also the irony of the professor stealing biblical fragments. (Thou shal not...)

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#57

Post by weberc2 »

cr0sh wrote: post #52
weberc2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that article (and publication) strike you as trustworthy? Does it appear that the author and publication aspire to present a balanced perspective? Would you be persuaded if I linked to a Fox News (or similar) article on the issue?

You are aware that there are more articles on this topic than that singular one presented, right? This whole issue was discussed almost to literal death on various discussion boards years ago. An objective view of this issue doesn't paint HL in a good light, imho.

> You are aware that there are more articles on this topic than that singular one presented, right?

Yes, I'm sure there are lots of articles, many of which are slanted to support one agenda or another and maybe a few that aspire to present a balanced viewpoint. I'm not sure what your point you're making.

> An objective view of this issue doesn't paint HL in a good light, imho.

Probably not, but it doesn't support the "hateful bigots" accusation. "Greedy capitalists disingenuously hiding behind religious rights" at worst.

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#58

Post by driverdan »

notac wrote: post #36
driverdan wrote: post #26

> a big part of it is that they have "Bible" in their museum name, and that gets all the bigots out in arms. This is laughable considering Hobby Lobby is run by religious bigots.

You know, it wasn’t so long ago that “take the high road” was the common mantra. Turns out, even if you disagree with people or think they’re wrong, you can still behave with decorum. It makes everything more pleasant.

The only reason I replied and used the word bigot was because of the use in the original comment. Perhaps they should have "taken the high road" by not implying those who oppose Hobby Lobby's owners are bigots.

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#59

Post by TimTheTinker »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #28
romaaeterna wrote: post #22

The Obbink stuff has been on slow boil for a few years now. Part of the problem is that even ancient papyri texts aren't actually worth anything, unless they are really famous, but they are getting caught up by all the export regulations for gold and jewels (sometimes under new interpretations of law). Obbink has made some poor decisions, but I feel that the rules have changed on his watch. Also, while "Hobby Lobby"…

The fact that you can't read the article shows. You are totally misrepresenting what is happening now and what happened in the past to push a particular political agenda. This has nothing to do with export laws. The documents were the property of Oxford in a collection that he oversaw. Now Oxford discovered that he sold the documents. Also, ancient artifacts are protected regardless of their value. That is what keeps…

> They're a hate-filled group

That's quite a claim - by the definition of "hate", you're saying that the individuals who run Hobby Lobby "feel intense or passionate dislike for (someone)".

You may not like certain specifics of their employee healthcare policy, but having such a policy does not imply hate on their part -- such a conclusion doesn't follow logically. Or is there another fact that would imply hatred on their part?

Re: Oxford Professor Is Accused of Selling Ancient Texts

#60

Post by driverdan »

driverdan wrote: post #26

> a big part of it is that they have "Bible" in their museum name, and that gets all the bigots out in arms. This is laughable considering Hobby Lobby is run by religious bigots.

To add to my comment, I know this is walking a fine line and I understand if the mods delete it.

My point was that the Hobby Lobby owners have their own bias against non-Christians and implying that those who oppose them are bigots is wrong.

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