Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

theweek.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 309 posts

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#111

Post by alistproducer2 »

goldstone26 wrote: post #33
toomuchtodo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would likely improve under democratic socialism (which is not the same model as communism or socialism). Especially if we disconnect healthcare from employment allowing workers more freedom to pick employers or entrepreneurship. People want purpose, but they also need their basic needs met. They have to have hope they won't spend their lives on an economic treadmill where one slip will cause their demise. This is…

As a free-market proponent who isn't 100% sold on all of the democratic socialism stuff, I don't understand how anyone can deny that having your literal physical well-being tied to your employment is not an enormous problem for anyone who values the efficient allocation of labor/capital (which should hopefully be everyone?) It's literally just a cash-equivalent (in that nearly every employer is going to provide a pla…

What is your definition of a free market? I see this so often but few people seem to understand the inherent contradiction. If a market is truly free it will naturally tend toward monopoly thereby extinguishing itself. If it is regulated to prevent it's own destruction, it ceases to be truly free. In either case it is a transient condition. A brief glorious moment in time that cannot, by its own definition, be anything more than ephemeral.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#112

Post by [deleted] »

cryoshon wrote: post #108
bluedino wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. Pride? Character? Respect from colleagues?

pride, character, and respect from colleagues are things that don't pay the bills, even though they're nice to have. i know this is sounds like a snarky and low-effort response, but it is not intentional. it's just the way things are, and there isn't really a diplomatic way of saying it.

[deleted]

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#113

Post by nohope »

sol_remmy2 wrote: post #52
nohope wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you mean by "west"? Latin America (where I live), all the Africa and some poor european countries are "west" and those are not very good examples of prosperity. Even in "western" rich countries there is a lot of growing unequality. The capitalism is falling by itself.

> Latin America (where I live) is "west" and those are not very good examples of prosperity. Chile is a good example of a "western" latin american country. Brazil/Argentina are bad examples. Brazil for instance, has state-ownership of its entire oil industry - pretty textbook socialism.

As if the lack of prosperity in these countries were because supposed lack of capitalism...

Chile? Just look how people are satisfied with their system nowadays... Behind seeming positive macroeconomic numbers, there is a very unequal society. Chile is the most unequal society among all OECD members. The riots that happen there right now are not against any socialism, but against the liberal fail. They followed strict liberal rules since Pinochet dictatorship, and that is what it became.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#114

Post by standardUser »

_ylmx wrote: post #55

I can't understand what people actually have against capitalism. Most of the times when I hear about the problems of my generation much of it comes down to personal choice. You don't have to go to an expensive college, you don't have to live in the "it" part of town, and you don't have to use your credit card. I've heard so many people complain about the injustices of the world, but at the same time they pay twice as…

Part of understanding the debate is realizing that virtually no one wants to abandon capitalism. Just like virtually no one wants an actual communist economic system.

When people say they are against capitalism, most of the time they are criticizing the particular implementation. All economies (aside from a few tiny exceptions) are "mixed" economies. Outside of genuinely radical circles, most debates focus on changing the mix, sometimes dramatically, but never abandoning it all together.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#115

Post by bigYahnz »

Will_Parker wrote: post #94
golf3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Occupy Wallstreet did happen but it was torpedoed by identity politics, the establishment only permits fervent discussion about gender and skin color.

> the establishment only permits fervent discussion about gender and skin color. Do they? Try making a case that we don't need more than two sets of gendered pronouns in your tech job.

Why would there need to be more than two when there are only two genders?

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#116

Post by [deleted] »

bluedino wrote: post #99
wayoutthere wrote: post #8

In the US, it's less active protest and more things like slacking off heavily at work because it's a treadmill we can't win. We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. We as a nation have basically told people "no, you can't have a comfortable life or save for retirement because your parents' generation still needs to get 10% annual growth to make their retirement mat…

>> We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. Pride? Character? Respect from colleagues?

[deleted]

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#117

Post by marcosdumay »

undefined1 wrote: post #46
Ididntdothis wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“that westerners would want to overthrow capitalism.” Almost nobody wants to overthrow capitalism. People want to make adjustments to the current form of it to address concerns. That’s very legitimate and necessary in a functioning democracy. The people who scream “socialism “ all the time just want to move the discussion to extremes

The number of people embracing extremes has increased rapidly though (generally, and on both sides). In regards to this, "Replace Capitalism" seems to be gaining ground faster than "Improve Capitalism". 43% of Americans say socialism would be a good thing for the country [1] 1. https://news.gallup.com/poll/257639/four-americans-embrace-f...

Well, "some form of socialism" is hardly an extreme position.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#118

Post by SkyBelow »

bluedino wrote: post #99
wayoutthere wrote: post #8

In the US, it's less active protest and more things like slacking off heavily at work because it's a treadmill we can't win. We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. We as a nation have basically told people "no, you can't have a comfortable life or save for retirement because your parents' generation still needs to get 10% annual growth to make their retirement mat…

>> We have absolutely no incentive to work hard when doing so doesn't materially affect income. Pride? Character? Respect from colleagues?

>Respect from colleagues?

The person making everyone else look bad and who is receiving no incentives for doing so likely isn't getting the sort of respect you are envisioning.

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#119

Post by wool_gather »

rswskg wrote: post #12
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most young people are paradoxically for unfettered immigration I'm not sure that is true.

The woke young programmers of the bay (and elsewhere) consider any form of border control racist. I've seen this queried for exceptions, eg for convicted rapists and the rabid blue hairs torn that suggestion apart as a 'racist straw man'.

Could you possibly rephrase your observation to avoid the derogatory description?

Re: Think young people are hostile to capitalism now? Wait for the next recession

#120

Post by perceptronas »

aivisol wrote: post #106
perceptronas wrote: post #10

>After the 2008 recession, President Obama and the Democrats effectively saved capitalism from itself; a more radical leadership would fight to replace it with a better system. This time around there may be far more pressure from below to do just that, especially with a more organized left and more class conscious young people. As a former soviet occupied country citizen, I am amazed that westerners would want to ove…

I come from a similar place and feel the same, and would never ever want those times back. We have seen too much repression, horror and misery that we have developed our own allergy against anything which hints in that direction. But on the other hand I can understand the appeal of the ideas which promise that there will be no inequality, everyone gets access to free education, healthcare etc. That all sounds nice, b…

I guess we grew up with stories which gave us +5 resistance to socialism. Stories about how in almost every group were people who would report you if you talked about some "threat" to union. Stories about how everyone was living in socialism and they were building communism. Once communism is built - nobody needs to even walk in streets - you will have conveyor belts everyone taking everywhere. Stories about how in the west capitalists were using everyone as slaves and how you as a citizen had power to control. Stories how streets were empty and you had to wait for car for 8 years to buy it (price was insane too). Everyone was stealing from factories, selling "behind table" and etc.
Post reply on HN