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The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

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Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#31

Post by marcosdumay »

buboard wrote: post #9
_8j50 wrote: post #5

I can accept some of what is said on this article but from a technical perspective the internet (imho) offers much more opportunities to create and collaborate than any other time in the past. I believe most of the shortcomings and abuse of the internet is a result of mass adoptation of the technology without correspnding legislature. Societies just haven't caught up with technology,even well seasoned technologists s…

> offers much more opportunities to create and collaborate than any other time in the past. We had skype, games, ICQ, MSN, blogs, blog aggregators, rss readers, galleries, audiogalaxy, guestbooks, forums, hotline communications, IRC, video chats, joomla, wikis etc etc in the year 2003. Not much has been added. Video is perhaps the only thing that we didnt have. A big deal but it s not everything. The main change was…

Yeah, let me repeat the observation that those things are passing through a phase of hyperoptimization with money being the only goal, that I post every time some discussion like this appears.

Internet content is not even the worst case of hyperoptimization around, nor by far the most concerning. There's something to say about how companies measure and treat their employees. But yes, it's a problem, and very hard to solve.

I don't even understand what is causing it. We aren't in some sudden crisis where we need to optimize everything, and in the end it goes even against its own goal so it's not rational anyway. Yet, it's everywhere.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#34

Post by buboard »

rhizome wrote: post #30
buboard wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have always had email servers. You can set up one today. What we need is to to convince more technical people to use the internet the way it was designed for. And to find ways for these people to make money, because the monopolized internet of today makes that unattainable.

Maybe something to make would be an addition to mail servers that chat-ifies group emails.

all you need is an X-header. I also liked the expires header but it didnt catch on

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#35

Post by user2827282 »

rkho wrote: post #25
majjam wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi, my name is FAANG and I’m addicted to money

Hi I'm a short-term mentality shareholder and I'm also addicted to money

Hi, I'm a user, I don't pay for services. And I'm a paying customer. We were told that everything is fine, privacy matters less, safety is what matters most and we blinding believe in big tech co because tech is the new frontier, tech is the future, tech is the new God

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#37

Post by shadowgovt »

Ygg2 wrote: post #29
shadowgovt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point they will have missed?

That trading liberty for safety usually yields neither.

Modern interpretations of that quote are way off the bead from the historical origin and intent of the original speaker. https://www.npr.org/2015/03/02/390245038/ben-franklins-famou...

It's not unlike people misattributing the quote about the net, censorship, and damage to mean the internet, When it actually referred to USENET (a system that was, essentially, censored by collective action of internet service providers ceasing to store and forward its messages, some because they perceived it as obsolete, some because they believe they would have personal responsibility, morally if not legally, for the way people use the channel).

The simplistic interpretation of the Franklin quote breaks down very quickly when one observes that most of the Founding Fathers agreed significantly with Locke's social contract theory, which is very much relinquishing individual, personal liberties for collective safety.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#38

Post by stuart78 »

I think of this issue in a much more mundane way all the time. When looking for product reviews, for example, the top results are, in my experience, unusable. A search for espresso machine reviews returns SEO driven results, and even the more genuine-looking results (sorry BusinessInsider, but I don't need your input) seem to exclusively list products which the site manager can get a referral link for. I don't mind the idea of referral links in theory, but what happens to the entry that would be #1 except for not being available on Amazon?

I don't know that there was ever a golden age of espresso machine reviews online, but I do think that my trust in the quality of information I find through general searches has dramatically fallen in the last ten years. I imagine there is a Facebook group that might have better perspectives, or 'Coffee Twitter', but neither of those are easy to discover through Google, and multiplying my search area across them all (reddit too, I suppose) gets burdensome quickly.

So I'm not sure that the internet of creation has disappeared as much as it may have become hidden. Either within walled gardens or by the professionalization of page rank by SEO pros (against whom Joe's coffee corner cannot hope to compete).

Either way, search suggests a much less creative internet than might actually be there.

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#39

Post by buboard »

_8j50 wrote: post #28
buboard wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> offers much more opportunities to create and collaborate than any other time in the past. We had skype, games, ICQ, MSN, blogs, blog aggregators, rss readers, galleries, audiogalaxy, guestbooks, forums, hotline communications, IRC, video chats, joomla, wikis etc etc in the year 2003. Not much has been added. Video is perhaps the only thing that we didnt have. A big deal but it s not everything. The main change was…

You have to realize your experience is not everyone's experience. And nostalgia is a lie. > We had skype, games, ICQ, MSN, blogs, blog aggregators, rss readers, galleries, audiogalaxy, guestbooks, forums, hotline communications, IRC, video chats, joomla, wikis Signal,whatsapp,ipfs,discord,slack,github,confluence,twitter,twitch,stackoverflow and so much more from a "techie" perspective. But have you considerer how muc…

Half the services you mention either

- require a phone and phone number to sign up

- lock you in

- will shut down next year unless someone buys them and bastardizes them to oblivion

- are services that replace services that were bought and bastardized (skype). they re bound to repeat the cycle

- arent as popular / dont work (ipfs vs torrents)

- lock content away from search engines

- are basically rehashes of the same idea with much heavier browser footprint for the sake of ... i dont know what really

- Are all platforms - they dont specialize, they force you inside an eternally septembered community . I Liked having separate accounts in separate forums - having many identities is a virtue - and good for privacy

- are Incremental updates. E2E encryption is the one thing that matters, for the rest, we had flash video converence in 2003, and it worked better than webrtc solutions today

- MOOCs are not a successful thing today either though. good that we have all that content, but it wasn't enabled by any of the aforementioned companies.

I m not sure i m convinced we have a fundamentally different - or better - internet today. Everythinig you mention is repackaging. (and we had job ads and lots of free webhosting too btw. You know neocities, they re even named out of nostalgia for geocities, craigslist is still a thing).

Re: The Internet of creation disappeared. Now we have surveillance and control

#40

Post by shpongled »

buboard wrote: post #9
_8j50 wrote: post #5

I can accept some of what is said on this article but from a technical perspective the internet (imho) offers much more opportunities to create and collaborate than any other time in the past. I believe most of the shortcomings and abuse of the internet is a result of mass adoptation of the technology without correspnding legislature. Societies just haven't caught up with technology,even well seasoned technologists s…

> offers much more opportunities to create and collaborate than any other time in the past. We had skype, games, ICQ, MSN, blogs, blog aggregators, rss readers, galleries, audiogalaxy, guestbooks, forums, hotline communications, IRC, video chats, joomla, wikis etc etc in the year 2003. Not much has been added. Video is perhaps the only thing that we didnt have. A big deal but it s not everything. The main change was…

Yeah the consolidation is the biggest component I've noticed. I find myself only going to a handful of websites on a regular basis
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