Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls • Hacker News Board

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#121

Post by vfc1 » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:15 AM UTC

lexapro wrote: post #116

vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

I can image cutting out meat from my diet, only thing I would really miss is the taste of chicken and maybe fish. Dairy on the other hand would be much much harder. Because I wouldn't just miss the taste but would have to change my entire diet.

Dairy actually has hormones called caso-morphines that bind to the same brain receptors as I believe heroine (of course not as potent).

So it's addictive in nature, this addition is probably meant to keep the calf close to the mother and away from harm.

But the addiction can be easily broken and after a while you start finding cheese actually a bit gross because its essentially solid melting fat.

As far as I know for people looking to eat in a less environmentally impactful way, eating only pork, chicken and eggs and removing the dairy and beef is great already.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#122

Post by yulaow » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:21 AM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #117

rimliu wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, "we have evolved to be able to do something, but other species did not, so we should not do it neither" is a very backward argument.

The point was that its actually a very unnatural thing to be doing, and that we only evolved very recently to be able to even do it. Also, there is a whole spectrum to it. You don't have to be 100% medically diagnosed as lactose intolerant, it might cause you ocasional digestive issues without you even know it. Like those unexplained, once a month or once every 3 months diarrheas that many of us take as a fact of lif…

Most animals don't eat cooked meat but just raw meat. If you follow that reasoning is very unnatural for us to cook meat, we should switch to raw meat.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#123

Post by navigatesol » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:22 AM UTC

babuskov wrote: post #101

animal531 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Milk contains a lot of calcium, but scientific studies show that humans barely absorb any of it, especially if pasteurized. Even worse, milk increases calcium loss in bones, resulting in higher rates of fractures. Modern milk is also a processed food, which brings a host of other negative associated factors.

> scientific studies show that humans barely absorb any of it, especially if pasteurized Link? > Even worse, milk increases calcium loss in bones, resulting in higher rates of fractures. I would love to read some serious research on this. Some 3-4 years ago I read similar advice, stopped drinking milk for about 5 months and started having serious problems with teeth which I never had before. Started drinking milk aga…

>I would love to read some serious research on this.

Funny you ask for scientific research to support OP's argument, then you follow it up with a personal anecdote about milk fixing your teeth problem in a month (which it assuredly did not).

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#124

Post by navigatesol » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:24 AM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #63

This is large scale Matrix-like exploitation at its finest like only humans can do. Copying the genes of a single animal hundreds of thousands of times, killing the males at birth, plugging the females to a milking machine, feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet and injecting them with tons of antibiotics, hormones and god knows what else. I wonder what could possibly go wrong? All completely…

>feed them corn and soy which is totally not their natural diet

What's a "natural diet"? I always assumed that animals (including us) ate what they could get, and their diets were perpetually evolving along with their environment.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#125

Post by vfc1 » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:29 AM UTC

babuskov wrote: post #105

vfc1 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calcium can be easily obtained from plant foods without any problem as well, and in a better form better managed by the human body - https://nutritionfacts.org/topics/calcium/ > "A meta-analysis of cow’s milk intake and hip fracture studies showed no significant protection" > "milk may sometimes increase bone and hip fracture rates" Milk and all it's derived products have lactose, so they should be avoided by people…

You make it sound easy, but let's look at the facts. The link you posted, says you need at least 600 mg of calcium per day. 100g of brocolli has 47mg. So, you would need to eat 1.3kg of brocolli EVERY single day. Who does that?

You don't have to that at all, of course. First of all, nobody really knows how much calcium you really need per day, all those estimates are ballpark estimates at best.

The estimates of 1000mg or more have been pushed for decades by the dairy industry.

You can get calcium from greens like kale etc. eat a bit of brocolli, eat pulses like beans and lentils, use tahini as a sauce, drink fortified plant-milk.

Just eat a well-balanced plant-based diet and you will be absolutely fine. Studies show that plant-based diets don't cause brittle bones at all on the contrary.

You can get all the nutrients that you need, calcium included from a plant-based diet. The only thing you need to supplement is B12, which is produced by bacterias in the dust.

And as everything is so clean, we don't eat a lot of dirt anymore so that its advised to supplement. Animals don't have it too on factory farms, they get injected with it together with the anti-biotics for health reasons.

So might as well take it directly, otherwise calcium is not an issue at all in a plant-based diet and this can and it has been easily shown.

Edit: Check this YouTube playlist on bone health for more info - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5TLzNi5fYd_ACcY8TDQC...

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#126

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:30 AM UTC

vfc1 wrote: post #117

rimliu wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, "we have evolved to be able to do something, but other species did not, so we should not do it neither" is a very backward argument.

The point was that its actually a very unnatural thing to be doing, and that we only evolved very recently to be able to even do it. Also, there is a whole spectrum to it. You don't have to be 100% medically diagnosed as lactose intolerant, it might cause you ocasional digestive issues without you even know it. Like those unexplained, once a month or once every 3 months diarrheas that many of us take as a fact of lif…

We evolved to do it recently, but lactose tolerance genes have been heavily selected for by evolution. It's one of the most heavily selected-for traits in the past ten thousand years.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#127

Post by tda » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:35 AM UTC

elmar wrote: post #84

LennyWhiteJr wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait till you find out that all the world's cash crops are essentially genetic clones of each other. We're literally one superbug away from global famine.

Bananas are a good example they are all clones, 95% of banana exports come from a single cultivated variety, the Cavendish.

Especially because before 1950 the Gros Michel was about as popular as the Cavendish now. And then it got wiped out by a fungus so instead of diversifying, all banana plantations collectively switched to Cavendish. Now there is a new fungus the Cavendish is susceptible too, so perhaps in a few years we'll all be eating something else. Hopefully more than a single alternative variety is found this time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavendish_banana: "After years of attempting to keep it out of the Americas, in mid-2019, Panama disease Tropical Race 4 (TR4), was discovered on banana farms in the coastal Caribbean region. With no fungicide effective against TR4, the Cavendish may meet the same fate as the Gros Michel."

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#128

Post by nkrisc » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:36 AM UTC

rimliu wrote: post #97

Moru wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And growing green things is in general more efficient than cows. There was a lot of lobbying going on to get the milk industry to what it is now in western countries.

US is not the world, you know.

You think the dairy industry is unique to the US?

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#129

Post by nkrisc » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:39 AM UTC

kuu wrote: post #95

vfc1 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For babies, not for adults. Adult animals in most species can't even drink milk, they can't digest it anymore past infancy. Biologically this means that the infant would release the mother so that they could have another child, so there is biological adaption on most species to not drink milk past a certain age. And we have it too via lactose intolerance, which is normal. However, some relatively small percentage of…

> Adult animals in most species can't even drink milk, they can't digest it anymore past infancy. But we're not animals. Animals cannot drive cars (not even the babies!) and we do. We're different than animals in some aspects. Some of us are able to digest milk

The rest of the absurdity of your argument aside, claiming that only humans can do a thing that humans invented solely for themselves to make your point gave me a good chuckle.

We are animals like all the others, even if a percentage of our population evolved the ability to continue to digest milk into adulthood.

Re: Most U.S. Dairy Cows Are Descended From Just Two Bulls

#130

Post by PaulRobinson » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:40 AM UTC

All US Dairy Cows are descended from the original two cows, and all humans from the first humans, and on, and on.

It is interesting how selective breeding has played a part in several industries though. This example sounds a little appalling to my mind, but I'm a fan of horse racing and all thoroughbreds have to trace their lineage to one of three horses or they're not considered thoroughbred and I'm fine with that.

What is it that makes some examples unnerving, and some acceptable?