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The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

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Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#61

Post by dmos62 »

BostonFern wrote: post #59
dmos62 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be a sign that a new generation of technologies are reaching a similar level of reliability.

This could be wishful thinking.

I'm asking myself what does it look like when the baseline tech is superseded, though I'm not arguing one way or another. I think that this kind of trend switch would be a gradual movement with ups and downs, where people would often be asking themselves "is this a serious trend", "is this wishful thinking", etc. None of these things prove that a meaningful long-term transition is happening, but I think that they're there when it does.

Actually, I'm not even thinking about floppy disks vs X. Rather about qualitative changes as a whole.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#62

Post by drmpeg »

metaphor wrote: post #58
drmpeg wrote: post #52

In the 80's, I was the project engineer for the Air Force DSP satellite ground communications network upgrade. This system used a 20 MB Bernoulli Box to store the early warning messages. It was replaced in 2005. This was the system used to pass early warning to the Patriot anti-missile (Scud) batteries during the first Gulf War. Internetworking the Air Force system to an Army system was considered revolutionary in 19…

If your team had Link 16 integration requirements, I extend my deepest sympathies.

Nothing that complex. The link between Buckley and the Patriots was over AUTODIN.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#63

Post by madengr »

robdachshund wrote: post #26
eru wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pressed CDs should last much longer than CD-R.

This is true, but tape lasts much much longer. I know people have issues with floppies, but I wonder if that is more to do with dirty floppy drives that need to be cleaned, and the fact that it's harder to use tape for digital storage vs analog as you have to read encoded signals and convert to digital values vs having a few small dropouts on a cassette recording or a vhs. Floppies are really just tape in a disc form…

One of my bucket list projects is to use an SDR to forward error correct and modulate raw data into something that is compatible with NTSC VHS recorders.

I wonder what the capacity of VHS tape is, given the restrictions of the NTSC modulation? I believe, back in the 80’s, someone made a ISA card for PC backup to VHS.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#64

Post by K0SM0S »

hn23 wrote: post #30
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #10

> While SACC’s hardware is decades old, its software is constantly refreshed by young Air Force programmers who learn software development skills at Offutt’s Rapid Agile Development Lab. I am not so sure I want “Rapid Agile” development for something that literally controls nuclear missiles.

Oh, I hear you: fail early, fail hard, fail often...wait...

"LEAN" army suddenly takes on a way-too-proper meaning.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#65

Post by willis936 »

aussieguy1234 wrote: post #22
willis936 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old school tech is ridiculously easy to hack. New tech is much more hardened. The only advantage old tech has is that it doesn’t have peripherals that connect to the internet. At the end of the day the most secure computer is a new one, that isn’t on the internet, and is physically secure.

Unless its been tampered with in the factory or in transit for delivery, the NSA has been known to modify hardware in transit for spying purposes.

So its either have an old system that is trivially compromised or have a new system that has the potential of having an unknown backdoor.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#66

Post by namibj »

onlingyding wrote: post #43
willis936 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Old school tech is ridiculously easy to hack. New tech is much more hardened. The only advantage old tech has is that it doesn’t have peripherals that connect to the internet. At the end of the day the most secure computer is a new one, that isn’t on the internet, and is physically secure.

Old computers don't have whole computers built into the motherboards running inaccessible operating systems that can't be switched off.

POWER9 doesn't either. I'd buy a laptop with that for 3~4k next summer if it existed...

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#67

Post by eatbitseveryday »

whoopdedo wrote: post #17
madengr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CD-R are maybe 10 years. Floppies are more reliable. I have plenty of C64 and Apple II floppies that work fine.

There are CD-R and DVD-R made for archival. MAM-A/Mitsui has tested their Gold reflective layer CD-Rs with their Mitsui dye, to withstand the full spectrum of light, same as the sun, for 100 continuous hours without damage. Using data from tests like these, industry standard guidelines predict that MAM Gold CD-R will last greater than 100 years! (In fact, if you extend the data, MAM-A predicts a lifetime of up to 300…

Please avoid using code blocks for quotation. It creates side-scrolling windows. Just a sideways carrot > or italics is sufficient.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#68

Post by NoGravitas »

benj111 wrote: post #35

" Air Force software development hubs like Boston-based Kessel Run or Los Angeles-based Kobayashi Maru" Is this article a troll, or is the Air Force just trying to be 'cool'.

Surely Kobayashi Maru should be a Navy development hub.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#69

Post by Zenst »

madengr wrote: post #11
dsamarin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, we don't even know the length of time CDs will last because they haven't been around long enough. I would love someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

CD-R are maybe 10 years. Floppies are more reliable. I have plenty of C64 and Apple II floppies that work fine.

Punched cards are for me one of the most reliable mediums ever, in terms of proven to last without media decline (though keep away from snails).

So be thankful they didn't reinvent those, only using plastic instead of paper based card. Though plastic punched cards would last a very long time and also be imune to EMP, water...many things that other forms of media fall foul of.

Just don't get the storage capaicty there and if they are using systems that fit data on a floppy. Well, a CD based media would perhaps be overkill.

As for CD quality, that can vary a lot with some lasting since day one, others - rusting away (literally I have old CD's from the early days, some fine, others have rust holes due to impurities in manufacture).

But like most things, you don't appreciate the quality of the product until time has past and it still just works.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#70

Post by empath75 »

k_sze wrote: post #29
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #10

> While SACC’s hardware is decades old, its software is constantly refreshed by young Air Force programmers who learn software development skills at Offutt’s Rapid Agile Development Lab. I am not so sure I want “Rapid Agile” development for something that literally controls nuclear missiles.

`git commit -m “added factoryboy to generate random target coordinates to test the launch sequence.”` `git commit -m “Fuck fuck fuck, forgot to replace the launch API endpoint with a mock one.”` Scrum master: “Let’s implement the stuff with the highest customer value first.” Developer A: “I guess that means being able to launch the nukes.” Developer B: “Yeah. Auth can come later.” Developer C: “Nobody answered us abo…

True story— the launch codes were 00000 for decades.
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