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The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

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Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#21

Post by pimmen »

willis936 wrote: post #16
mdorazio wrote: post #2

I was kind of hoping they were replacing the floppy disks with CDs or something else equally old school and hard to hack.

Old school tech is ridiculously easy to hack. New tech is much more hardened. The only advantage old tech has is that it doesn’t have peripherals that connect to the internet. At the end of the day the most secure computer is a new one, that isn’t on the internet, and is physically secure.

Only for people who know what they’re doing. If a hacker faces hardware they’ve never seen before it will take some time to read up on it, especially if datasheets and such is not available online.

I fully concede it’s security by obscurity, though. A technician possessing any experience with that hardware is probably going to make short work of its security measures.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#22

Post by aussieguy1234 »

willis936 wrote: post #16
mdorazio wrote: post #2

I was kind of hoping they were replacing the floppy disks with CDs or something else equally old school and hard to hack.

Old school tech is ridiculously easy to hack. New tech is much more hardened. The only advantage old tech has is that it doesn’t have peripherals that connect to the internet. At the end of the day the most secure computer is a new one, that isn’t on the internet, and is physically secure.

Unless its been tampered with in the factory or in transit for delivery, the NSA has been known to modify hardware in transit for spying purposes.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#23

Post by mises »

aj7 wrote: post #3

But no more. At long last, that system, the Strategic Automated Command and Control System or SACCS, has dumped the floppy disk, moving to a “highly-secure solid state digital storage solution” Did SuperMicro make the board?

That story made a big splash but was never proven. Bloomberg claimed sources it conveniently couldn't reveal. I'm just as suspicious of China as the next guy, and they've probably got something in the supply chain, but probably not that. Besides, a ME or BMC 0day does the job just as well with very little risk.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#24

Post by einr »

madengr wrote: post #11
dsamarin wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know, we don't even know the length of time CDs will last because they haven't been around long enough. I would love someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

CD-R are maybe 10 years. Floppies are more reliable. I have plenty of C64 and Apple II floppies that work fine.

Floppies are more reliable. I have plenty of C64 and Apple II floppies that work fine.

5,25" floppies (especially lower density variants like the ones you mention) are quite reliable indeed, but the most recently common 1.44 MB 3,5" floppy is terrible.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#25

Post by robdachshund »

dsamarin wrote: post #9
mdorazio wrote: post #2

I was kind of hoping they were replacing the floppy disks with CDs or something else equally old school and hard to hack.

As far as I know, we don't even know the length of time CDs will last because they haven't been around long enough. I would love someone to correct me if I'm wrong.

CDs already get disc rot, sometimes just after a few years if they are cheap.

Don't forget, CDs have been out since 82, and they were not the first optical disc format around, either.

Tapes however, can last 50+ years. It's a much better medium than most think it is, for analog or digital storage. Heck, a reel to reel tape unit offers the best analog sound quality you can get.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#26

Post by robdachshund »

eru wrote: post #18
madengr wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CD-R are maybe 10 years. Floppies are more reliable. I have plenty of C64 and Apple II floppies that work fine.

Pressed CDs should last much longer than CD-R.

This is true, but tape lasts much much longer. I know people have issues with floppies, but I wonder if that is more to do with dirty floppy drives that need to be cleaned, and the fact that it's harder to use tape for digital storage vs analog as you have to read encoded signals and convert to digital values vs having a few small dropouts on a cassette recording or a vhs.

Floppies are really just tape in a disc format, and use heads to read high and low signals and deduce the 1s and 0s.

It stands to reason they should last quite a long time considering audio/video/data tapes can last over 50 years.

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#29

Post by k_sze »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #10

> While SACC’s hardware is decades old, its software is constantly refreshed by young Air Force programmers who learn software development skills at Offutt’s Rapid Agile Development Lab. I am not so sure I want “Rapid Agile” development for something that literally controls nuclear missiles.

`git commit -m “added factoryboy to generate random target coordinates to test the launch sequence.”`

`git commit -m “Fuck fuck fuck, forgot to replace the launch API endpoint with a mock one.”`

Scrum master: “Let’s implement the stuff with the highest customer value first.”

Developer A: “I guess that means being able to launch the nukes.”

Developer B: “Yeah. Auth can come later.”

Developer C: “Nobody answered us about how they want the abort sequence to work. I guess we’ll defer it to the next sprint.”

Re: The US nuclear forces’ messaging system finally got rid of its floppy disks

#30

Post by hn23 »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #10

> While SACC’s hardware is decades old, its software is constantly refreshed by young Air Force programmers who learn software development skills at Offutt’s Rapid Agile Development Lab. I am not so sure I want “Rapid Agile” development for something that literally controls nuclear missiles.

Oh, I hear you: fail early, fail hard, fail often...wait...
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