Bazel 1.0

Post by jhasse » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 9:52 AM UTC

fnord123 wrote: post #108

sz4kerto wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JVM startup is sub-second. Still not great for e.g. small command line utilities, but completely fine otherwise.

JVM startup for `java -version` is around 150ms on my machine: $ time java -version openjdk version "11.0.1" 2018-10-16 OpenJDK Runtime Environment 18.9 (build 11.0.1+13) OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM 18.9 (build 11.0.1+13, mixed mode) real 0m0.159s user 0m0.116s sys 0m0.052s This is how long it takes for a program like git to do actual work. Once you start running an actual program like Maven, it blows up to 500ms for `m…

    $ time ./waf --version >/dev/null

    real 0m0,068s
    user 0m0,056s
    sys 0m0,012s

    $ time ninja --version >/dev/null

    real 0m0,001s
    user 0m0,001s
    sys 0m0,000s

Post by philwo » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 10:20 AM UTC

choppaface wrote: post #97

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> GCE is slow to work on supporting auto-scale, so you have to pay for unused workers. Can you expand on what you mean here? GCE has had autoscaling for years and it's quite configurable, I don't see why you would need to keep unused workers around unless your build load is extremely spiky.

Not auto-scaling VM compute instances, auto-scaling the Google Cloud RBE service (I think it's called Cloud Build right now?). If you have a worker pool of size 1,000, you have to pay for that even if your dev team only uses it at full capacity 8-10hrs per day. Or maybe the Google Cloud sales people working with my company are misinformed? IDK, but my experience with TPUs, GPUs, AI Engine, Dataproc, BigQuery, etc...…

Post by Liquid_Fire » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 10:39 AM UTC

jhasse wrote: post #120

cromwellian wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Java starts up in ~1s, something like Graal could make this faster. But I find this Java criticism more a symptom of Java-derangement syndrome, because python and node build systems have even worse startup times and no one says anything.

> python and node build systems have even worse startup times and no one says anything. Noop build with Waf (build system written in Python) takes 0.13s on my system. Waf reports that the build actually takes 0.04s, so I guess 0.09s is Python's start-up time (and some other overhead).

Post by kartayyar » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:00 AM UTC

throwaway1777 wrote: post #59

In my opinion Bazel/Blaze and Buck are mainly useful to solve the problem of having too much code to build on one machine. Reproducible builds which can be done in a distributed fashion aren’t really useful when you can build your whole project in a minute or two on one machine. That being said, once you get the hang of it the overhead is not too high compared to simpler systems.

Post by panpanna » Fri, Oct 18, 2019, 11:39 AM UTC

blub wrote: post #81

arianvanp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We didn't have Bazel on ARM for NixOS because we can't bootstrap openJDK on ARM. There's no source code for a JVM that compiles on ARM afaik. Though in theory we could package binary blobs from oracle and bootstrap JDK and Bazel from there, it means now our trust path for your critical build tool has a random Oracle blob in its trust path there that is extremely hard to get rid off. Build systems should be easy to bu…

Google builds stuff for themselves and then dumps it for extra reputation points on the dev community. The part where this starts to suck is when their tools become pseudo-standards and everyone has to live with their decisions.