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Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

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Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#541

Post by irjustin »

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #128
irjustin wrote: post #35

I know this will be against deeply against HNews but I'm open to discussion. I don't see anything wrong with this. Charging vs Donations, I don't see what the difference is. It's people paying money for good/services/software. The primary difference is the open ended pricing model. Google, Apple put up networks and there's value in that network. Whether someone chooses to release their app for free or charge money fo…

I have done open source development for well over a decade, thousands of hours, tens of thousands of lines of code, and I can tell you: Considering the amount of donations I got, it would have been much more profitable to clean toilets, to just go begging in the streets, collect bottles from public trash cans for the deposit, or just sell my body. In fact let's have a look how much I got during the past 12 months for…

Thanks for making an account to comment. I went to sleep (live in Singapore).

100% open source does not pay money for the vast majority of people, and thank you for your contributions to the community.

I also hope you understand that I get that FOSS donations won't make a liveable wage. At the same time, we want to be thanked for our contributions to the community - I get that.

My point is - by throwing up a donation link, we're circumventing their process. What's the difference between throwing up a donation link vs a Apple/Android pay link in app? It's the network fees. We're trying to avoid those because we feel they're unfair (which they 100% are).

If the Apple/Android pay fee was the same as the donation link, the majority of the time, we be using Apple/Android pay. Why not?

We want the benefits of the Apple/Android distribution network without paying their fees because "We belong to FOSS".

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#542

Post by [deleted] »

tikiman163 wrote: post #529
tolmasky wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why ? If the rules clearly said "no chess games", one could say "that ends the discussion of why chess games are denied", or you could further ask "but why are no chess games allowed?". Is it because Google plans on having their own Google-Chess someday and thus is preemptively preventing competition? Is there a technical or regulatory reason chess games aren't allowed? That's the question (at least for me)…

The requirement for provable non-profit status is a legal requirement. A new federal law that passed last year makes it so any "online" content distribution network (including Google play) is legally responsible for any crimes committed by someone else listing a product or message on their platform. Basically, if you include a donation link in your app without proving non-profit status you could be committing fraud,…

[deleted]

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#543

Post by loteck »

thethirdone wrote: post #534
tikiman163 wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The requirement for provable non-profit status is a legal requirement. A new federal law that passed last year makes it so any "online" content distribution network (including Google play) is legally responsible for any crimes committed by someone else listing a product or message on their platform. Basically, if you include a donation link in your app without proving non-profit status you could be committing fraud,…

> Basically, if you include a donation link in your app without proving non-profit status you could be committing fraud, How is it fraud to ask for donations without being a non-profit? > Google also has to report non-tax exempt profits made by any app/content they host in many locations, I am not familiar with google's payment model, but is there no way to charge users except through Google for google play apps?

How is it fraud to ask for donations without being a non-profit?

It's higher risk for sure. Non-501c3 donations are the kind of high risk small peanuts you can imagine a behemoth like Google wanting to get away from.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#544

Post by dessant »

dessant wrote: post #491

WireGuard was reinstated after Jason has submitted a new version which does not contain a donation link. The issue has not been solved, and Google did not yet contact maintainers to clarify whether they would be allowed to have a donation link in WireGuard. Several other open source apps are still missing from Google Play, including andOTP. While WireGuard was bought back online, version 0.0.20191013 was briefly made…

It's disheartening to witness some of the arguments in this thread defending Google, saying that disallowing open source developers from linking to their Patreon pages is a legal requirement, because Google is legally liable (while the rest of the internet apparently isn't) for the payments that may happen on Patreon by following those links.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#545

Post by UncleMeat »

Operyl wrote: post #535
UncleMeat wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say this, but rooting attempts for flagship Android phones have failed at many recent pwn2owns. The grey market price for a root exploit on flagship Android is comparable to iPhone. The most popular third party rooting services don't seem to support past Android 8. Clearly it isn't easy to root these things.

I wonder if part of that is that a lot of flagships seem to have unlockable boot loafers now, with a force wipe to do so. Does that have a measurable impact on the number of people trying?

It doesn't seem that way. There are still people attempting pwn2owns. The grey market value of a root exploit is still in six figures and likely higher on the black market.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#546

Post by undergrowth54 »

newdaynewuser wrote: post #540
jonas21 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the license lets you do what you want with the code doesn't mean you’re allowed to commit fraud. For example, if a person were to repackage someone else's open source project with a link that says, "Donate to support the development of this software" that's still fraud (assuming they keep the donations).

I understand your point but we should not assume criminal intent without some solid evidence. Back in days I paid for CDs with only open source software because internet was too slow. CDs were definitely priced for decent profit. The beauty of opensource is that we can do this legally.

But this isn't a discussion of assuming criminal intent of a particular actor. This is a discussion of a rule to prevent actions by a hypothetical criminally-inclined actor...and thereby prevent a platform from getting a reputation for that criminal action.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#547

Post by thayne »

dessant wrote: post #491

WireGuard was reinstated after Jason has submitted a new version which does not contain a donation link. The issue has not been solved, and Google did not yet contact maintainers to clarify whether they would be allowed to have a donation link in WireGuard. Several other open source apps are still missing from Google Play, including andOTP. While WireGuard was bought back online, version 0.0.20191013 was briefly made…

But was it a version with the donation link removed?

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#548

Post by thayne »

krn wrote: post #340
dessant wrote: post #235

Google Play In-app Billing does not support donations [1], so open source developers should be allowed to link to their own donation pages. Google Play policies do not spell out that linking to donation platforms such as Patreon is forbidden. Disallowing developers from using in-app billing for donations, while also barring them from linking to external donation platforms, puts open source projects in a difficult pos…

> Disallowing developers from using in-app billing for donations, while also barring them from linking to external donation platforms, puts open source projects in a difficult position, and appears to be overly hostile towards funding open source development. Google Play has been very clear about this[1]: > Fund solicitations > Examples: Donation solicitations from parties without a valid 501(c)(3) tax exempt status…

> solicitations from parties without a valid 501(c)(3) tax exempt status clearly displayed to the public

As far as I can tell (though I am no expert) it would be very difficult or impossible for an open source project to qualify for 501(c)(3) tax exemption. And even if it was, the cost in both time and money to obtain such a status would not be worth it for small open source projects.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#550

Post by MelodyConcerto »

dessant wrote: post #491

WireGuard was reinstated after Jason has submitted a new version which does not contain a donation link. The issue has not been solved, and Google did not yet contact maintainers to clarify whether they would be allowed to have a donation link in WireGuard. Several other open source apps are still missing from Google Play, including andOTP. While WireGuard was bought back online, version 0.0.20191013 was briefly made…

At least they heard us this time.

Too often they refuse to listen when there isn't an angry mob at the door.

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