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Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

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Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#491

Post by dessant »

WireGuard was reinstated after Jason has submitted a new version which does not contain a donation link. The issue has not been solved, and Google did not yet contact maintainers to clarify whether they would be allowed to have a donation link in WireGuard.

Several other open source apps are still missing from Google Play, including andOTP.

While WireGuard was bought back online, version 0.0.20191013 was briefly made available (with a donation link) before it got updated to version 0.0.20191016. Again, the current version of WireGuard does not contain a donation link.

This is the original version of the post, which has become inaccurate minutes after it was posted:

> WireGuard has been reinstated [1], and the donation link is in the app menu (version 0.0.20191013).

> Google has reversed its decision to remove an app that contains a link to a donation page, likely because of public scrutiny.

> I'm hopeful that people will continue to seek answers for why Google has begun to remove these open source apps, there are several of them mentioned in this thread alone. Please don't allow this to go unnoticed, the future of a bunch of less popular open source projects may depend on how this issue is perceived by the public, and addressed by Google.

> [1] https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.wireguard....

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#492

Post by swebs »

bdcravens wrote: post #466
tolmasky wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but why ? If the rules clearly said "no chess games", one could say "that ends the discussion of why chess games are denied", or you could further ask "but why are no chess games allowed?". Is it because Google plans on having their own Google-Chess someday and thus is preemptively preventing competition? Is there a technical or regulatory reason chess games aren't allowed? That's the question (at least for me)…

Their house, their rules.

Please read the first paragraph again. Slowly this time.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#493

Post by yorwba »

psychometry wrote: post #456
iamleppert wrote: post #400

In an ironic twist, our app that Google supported via Summer of Code was removed. Whoever came up with this policy and started enforcing it at Google is completely tone-deaf, needs to be fired and publicly called out so we can set an example as a community that this sort of behavior will not be tolerated. We have contacted engineering leadership at Google and they are in the process of figuring out who it is internal…

If you think that's an appropriate and proportional response to an employee making a mistake or misunderstanding an internal policy, I sincerely hope that you're not in charge of anyone at your day job.

I'm pretty sure "whoever came up with this policy and started enforcing it" has significant leeway in their decision making. Having the power to come up with new policies to enforce also means that you should be ready to take responsibility if those policies turn out to be bad.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#494

Post by psychometry »

yorwba wrote: post #493
psychometry wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that's an appropriate and proportional response to an employee making a mistake or misunderstanding an internal policy, I sincerely hope that you're not in charge of anyone at your day job.

I'm pretty sure "whoever came up with this policy and started enforcing it" has significant leeway in their decision making. Having the power to come up with new policies to enforce also means that you should be ready to take responsibility if those policies turn out to be bad.

Sure, but this person was probably given another set of more general policies to work with, and what they came up with was reasonable for the vast majority of cases. It's hard to imagine every single edge case (open source apps with donation links are definitely the minority) and policies will evolve over time to be more comprehensive.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#495

Post by unethical_ban »

panopticon wrote: post #345
RedComet wrote: post #309

Ah yes, the multi-billion dollar megacorp trying to prevent goodwill donations. Dear regulators: BREAK UP GOOGLE.

To play devil's advocate, I'm sure Google's intent is to prevent garbage apps from spamming or tricking users into paying money and the resulting PR backlash from having an app store full of shady apps. As evidence of this, Google does allow donations if the publisher is a 501(c)(3) (see https://support.google.com/faqs/answer/75724?hl=en ).

So if I write a legit open source app and release it, and link to a donation page, that's wrong? I don't deserve some credit for my work?

Oh right, it's because Google wants me to have some kind of "pro" app that is effectively a license, that they can get their 30% cut of.

They don't give a damn about fraud via this method. They want their money.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#496

Post by ngold »

tolmasky wrote: post #367
krn wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Disallowing developers from using in-app billing for donations, while also barring them from linking to external donation platforms, puts open source projects in a difficult position, and appears to be overly hostile towards funding open source development. Google Play has been very clear about this[1]: > Fund solicitations > Examples: Donation solicitations from parties without a valid 501(c)(3) tax exempt status…

Sure, but why ? If the rules clearly said "no chess games", one could say "that ends the discussion of why chess games are denied", or you could further ask "but why are no chess games allowed?". Is it because Google plans on having their own Google-Chess someday and thus is preemptively preventing competition? Is there a technical or regulatory reason chess games aren't allowed? That's the question (at least for me)…

Because it saves google some hassle in policing shady monetary schemes. As soon as money is involved it is a massive hassle. Going outside of established monetary policy opens up a massive hole of shenanigans. Not to mention every app you download would have huge incentive to put up endless patreon/donate buttons that would go outside of googles carefully crafted walled garden, yet they would be held responsible for shady practices.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#497

Post by neonate »

dessant wrote: post #491

WireGuard was reinstated after Jason has submitted a new version which does not contain a donation link. The issue has not been solved, and Google did not yet contact maintainers to clarify whether they would be allowed to have a donation link in WireGuard. Several other open source apps are still missing from Google Play, including andOTP. While WireGuard was bought back online, version 0.0.20191013 was briefly made…

> Google has reversed its decision to remove an app that contains a link to a donation page

Are we sure that this is a decision reversal, as opposed to just reinstating one (or a few) apps?

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#498

Post by progval »

UncleMeat wrote: post #305
djsumdog wrote: post #138

The Apple/Play stores are essentially a totally broken implementation of something that had existed for over a decade before: package repositories. It's embraced and extended Linux/BSD package/ports trees, except without things like the ability to add a 3rd party repository with other authors signing keys, pin certain versions, etc. https://battlepenguin.com/tech/android-fragmentation/#packag... We could go on about…

Package repos don't provide analytics for developers, search for discovery, malware and abuse detection that scales to millions of apps, and loads of other features that the app stores offer. They aren't equivalent.

> Package repos don't provide analytics for developers

They can. Debian does it on an opt-in basis: http://popcon.debian.org/

> search for discovery

You can use text search on APT repositories, and probably other ones.

> malware and abuse detection that scales to millions of apps

We don't need millions of apps.

A thing I like with distribution repos is curation: only trusted people can add new packages. Of course it means less packages, but it also means there is no junk at all.

Also, whenever I needed to do something, either F-Droid already had an application for it, or there wasn't any open source app doing what I needed.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#499

Post by dessant »

neonate wrote: post #497
dessant wrote: post #491

WireGuard was reinstated after Jason has submitted a new version which does not contain a donation link. The issue has not been solved, and Google did not yet contact maintainers to clarify whether they would be allowed to have a donation link in WireGuard. Several other open source apps are still missing from Google Play, including andOTP. While WireGuard was bought back online, version 0.0.20191013 was briefly made…

> Google has reversed its decision to remove an app that contains a link to a donation page Are we sure that this is a decision reversal, as opposed to just reinstating one (or a few) apps?

This is why it is important to continue questioning their actions, a bunch of other open source apps remain taken down, or were forced to remove their donation links. The issue of donation links in apps must be clearly addressed by Google.

Re: Open-source apps removed from Google Play Store due to donation links

#500

Post by kgersen75 »

megous wrote: post #428
kgersen75 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so the App Mafia is supposed to host your app for free? provide the bandwidth to download it for free ? give visibility to your app thru search in the store for free ? at some point someone gonna pay for the datacenters, the wires and all these stuff needed for software distribution. Try running your own site on your own servers and paying for the data traffic and then do the math. 30% is ok

Ok, let's do the math: Say app has 10MiB, 100,000 downloads is ~1TiB, 1 have a 1GiB/20GiB VPS with that monthly bandwidth which I pay $1/month. So distributing 100,000 copies costs $1. I'll give Google $1 for distribution of 100000 copies of my app. Fair? Yeah, I'll give Google a bit more for payment processing, perhaps. But actual distribution costs nothing really, for most apps.

you completely ignore the #1 cost: human cost to setup your vps, manage it, backups and whatnot etc. you gotta take all costs into account.

not every developer is willing to learn and spend time configuring & managing a server. that's not the same skill set.

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