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Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#151

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

I have given up on understanding it. I will say something that I think is a straightforward observation, or serious advice, and people will chuckle and laugh and say, "yeah, good joke," or "that's funny." If I ask to be taken seriously, then people are suddenly horrified, mortified, or freaked out.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#152

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

keeping my realist comments to myself took me more than two decades to become competent at. it'll take me another two decades to master.

the trick is to understand that all people live in a marginal headspace where engagement with the nature of the world is heavily filtered and limited so that their psychology can continue to mostly function on a day to day basis. this is true whether you are a "realist" or "pessimist" or "optimist".

piercing the veil is uncomfortable and unwanted for most people, and it doesn't necessarily provide them with any value to have their comforting or familiar illusions destroyed. in a sense, it's rude if you pop their bubble. in other words, some people don't see the humor in dark humor because they are unfamiliar with darkness, and it scares them.

for me, graveyard humor is the best way to tolerate things. but it's important to know your audience.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging your furniture? I don't do that, but neither do I assume that the entire earth is flat just because my living room is. Saying that all theories are born equal is nonsense, some things are more correct than others.

It doesn't matter what we SAY about the shape of the Earth though, does it? It only matters how we use/apply those theories in practice. Practical errors have consequences. Theoretical errors don't. It's just lip service without follow-through. I can SAY that the Earth is triangular and nothing will happen. Q.E.D If you insist that it is in (some way) wrong or incorrect for me to say that the Earth is triangular. Wel…

Not necessarily. David Deutche argues that theories can be argued as having merit based upon if they are good or bad explanations, regardless of application. A good explanation is one that fits the data and is hard to vary. The flat earth theory fails on both.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#154

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

I've found a lot of correlation between this sort of sense of humour and the type of place I enjoy working at. Me and straight laced folk just don't get on. It doesn't work. There's an impedance mismatch whereby there are all of these invisible lines that I cross without even realising. Like yeah, dude, your job is bullshit. So is mine. Life is, and then you die. If you're not fucking around and having (harmless) fun…

> Those sorts of people need to exist - society would fall apart if everyone were so freewheeling

Is that really true, or are we just conditioned to think that? Basic sense and decency can still be made explicit.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#155

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

The other day someone was remarking how quickly one's luck can change (for the better). I don't disagree but for whatever reason my response was, "yah, life is full of ups and downs, the trick is to die on one of the upticks". I thought it was hilarious. They thought I was morbid and cynical. Go figure!

I definitely snorted out loud at work trying not to laugh at this...

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#156
Here's an important thing from the article:

>it's most likely to occur in mildly depressed people—those suffering from major depression, by contrast, are more likely to suffer from larger distortions in their thinking.

I wonder if we have overly-pathologized the regular melancholy that comes with every day life? If mildly depressed people actually see the world realistically, maybe nothing is actually wrong with them? Should we call them depressed or should we just call them human?

I think we need to recognize the constant striving for happiness, and the inevitable disappointment when we don't reach it, as the unhealthy behavior that it is. It's okay, normal, even necessary to feel sad and pissed off at the world sometimes. It doesn't automatically mean something is wrong with you.

Of course, it would be absolutely unacceptable for the makers of Prozac to lose half of their customers, so it is a major thoughtcrime in many circles to even suggest the possibility.

If people have "mild depression", maybe sometimes it's okay to tell them to toughen up, put their head down and keep grinding because that's what life consists of. If you are not mildly depressed then you are an idiot - it shouldn't be called mild depression, it should just be called "existing as a human being". You grind and suffer and struggle through life, because you were born into a broken world and have no other choice. Sometimes all the struggle gets you good things to be proud of and appreciate. And sometimes all the suffering doesn't amount to anything of worth at all. That's life, not a pathology. It's amazingly beautiful if you can learn to come at it from the right angle, but that doesn't mean it will ever hurt any less.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#157
post #113

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

I feel like I relate. > So I try to keep this "depressive realism" to myself most of the time. Do you ever start to feel alone, isolated, and mis- or not understood too?

Nah, I used to, but then I realized that I DO have things in common with people. Just because I don't have everything in common doesn't mean I have to isolate myself from them. It just means that some parts of my life are more applicable to certain relationships then others. I'm not a social butterfly by any means and spend a lot of my time semi-alone, but I don't feel alone or isolated. Misunderstood? Sometimes. But I make a conscious effort to BE understood when I feel it's important.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#158
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what we SAY about the shape of the Earth though, does it? It only matters how we use/apply those theories in practice. Practical errors have consequences. Theoretical errors don't. It's just lip service without follow-through. I can SAY that the Earth is triangular and nothing will happen. Q.E.D If you insist that it is in (some way) wrong or incorrect for me to say that the Earth is triangular. Wel…

Not necessarily. David Deutche argues that theories can be argued as having merit based upon if they are good or bad explanations, regardless of application. A good explanation is one that fits the data and is hard to vary. The flat earth theory fails on both.

Given a finite data set, an infinite number of functions/curves can explain it. This is curve-fitting 101 stuff.

All explanatory models are either an over-fit or an under-fit to the data. With the fine print being "acceptable error rate". "The Earth is flat" may be wrong, but it could be acceptably wrong to me.

This is tackled by model-dependent realism ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Model-dependent_realism ) and by this paper "To explain or to predict" ( https://arxiv.org/pdf/1101.0891.pdf )

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#159
post #35

Why am I not surprised? The world is really going down right now and just following news what's going on is reason enough to cry like a baby or lose it completely. That's one of the main reasons why many people take drugs - it helps to forget what's happening around us and it makes us numb enough to stop feeling the constant pain when we think about the things happening to our brothers and sisters who aren't lucky en…

I hate to break it to you, but if the news is affecting your mental health you should realize that that is by design. The world may or may not be in a good state of affairs in an absolute sense, but it is better than it has ever been, and insofar as the news seems worse now than in the past, that has more to do with those in charge of the news media and their incentives and biases than actual changes in the state of the world getting worse.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#160
post #82

I don't think it's the case that all depressed people are realists, but that realists in general may be more predisposed to depression or being depressed. It seems likely some people suffering from depression have real mental illness, and a much much smaller number of people are ultra realists and get depressed over real negative events and facts. I know there have been times in my life where I have suffered from dep…

Most people rely on some amount of self-delusion to cope with tough things. I've witnessed this tendency, and in reaction I sometimes swing too far in the opposite direction and end up with my own cynical delusions.

When I get things right, and achieve somewhat of a stoic realism, I find there is a lot of benefit in accepting the world as it is, but it is lonely.

On a more personal note, I probably can't say anything to ease the loss of your cat, but forgive me for making an attempt: Your love for your cat and the memories you have are real, as real as anything else in this world. Even if there's no grand story that this is all a part of, the feeling of loss you have now is evidence that you found a source of joy and meaning on a personal level. Loss will always hurt, but the fact that something is finite does not prevent it from being good.

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