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Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

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Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#141

Post by nicky0 »

kypro wrote: post #82

I don't think it's the case that all depressed people are realists, but that realists in general may be more predisposed to depression or being depressed. It seems likely some people suffering from depression have real mental illness, and a much much smaller number of people are ultra realists and get depressed over real negative events and facts. I know there have been times in my life where I have suffered from dep…

The only constant is change. Any attempt to cling to things as they are and hope nothing will ever die or decay will lead only to suffering.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#142

Post by Kye »

pknopf wrote: post #130
Kye wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a comic somewhere depicting the two views of nihilism. One frame is all dreary and dark with the caption "Nothing really matters" over a sad character. The other is happy and upbeat with flowers and rainbows over the same, much happier character with the same caption. It sounds like you lean more toward the latter and choose to make your own meaning rather than embrace one of the common sources of meaning. Th…

I'd love it if you could find that comic!

I can't find it, but xkcd also had a take on it.

https://xkcd.com/167/

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#143

Post by harimau777 »

How do you guys think this relates to Cognitive Therapy? What I mean is:

My father was a therapist and a big advocate of the idea that people can be happy regardless of their circumstances and that emotion comes primarily from what someone thinks. There's a lot of truth in that, and it seems clear that Cognitive Therapy is an important treatment for depression.

However, he sometimes seemed to de-emphasize the importance of circumstances. For example, he was opposed to the idea that moving to a different part of the country could make someone happier. However, doesn't that ignore that fact that different places have different rates of depression and suicide?

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#144

Post by monktastic1 »

esotericn wrote: post #129
rtkaratekid wrote: post #102

I'm not so depressed these days (thankfully) but this "realism" does tend to manifest is different ways. I'm very self-conscious about not dragging people down because some thoughts that I think daily that are normal for me, seem to be absolutely psychologically crippling for people who previously hadn't, or didn't want to think such things. Usually when I do express these thoughts they're in the form of semi-dark hu…

I've found a lot of correlation between this sort of sense of humour and the type of place I enjoy working at. Me and straight laced folk just don't get on. It doesn't work. There's an impedance mismatch whereby there are all of these invisible lines that I cross without even realising. Like yeah, dude, your job is bullshit. So is mine. Life is, and then you die. If you're not fucking around and having (harmless) fun…

To paraphrase Alan Watts, don't trust anyone who isn't in on the Great Cosmic Joke :)

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#145

Post by ModelTheorist12 »

username90 wrote: post #131
ModelTheorist12 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The shape of the Earth is just a model [1] - an approximation. All models have margins of error. All models are wrong, some are useful [2]. The map is not the territory [3]. All scientific models are scale variant [4] e.g contextual. Scientific models are pragmatic at best. Useful for a particular purpose within some domain of applicability When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging…

> When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging your furniture? I don't do that, but neither do I assume that the entire earth is flat just because my living room is. Saying that all theories are born equal is nonsense, some things are more correct than others.

Furthermore you are arguing my point. Relativism.

>some things are more correct than others.

On the relative scale of "very incorrect" to "very correct" descriptions of Earth's shape where does "real" start?

In relation to the geodesic systems (e.g ETRS89, NAD, WGS84 ) "round" is a very imprecise description of Earth's shape.

Is WSG84 more 'real' than ETRS89?

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#146

Post by monktastic1 »

mamon wrote: post #100
hprotagonist wrote: post #78

see terry pratchett’s definition for “knurd”: https://wiki.lspace.org/mediawiki/Knurd Consider the following scale: Being drunk is to be intoxicated by alcohol to such an extent as to be unable to perceive the world clearly through the senses. Being sober is to be able to perceive the world clearly through the senses, yet humans are quite capable of giving themselves illusions and little stories to make life more bea…

I'm pretty sure that what Pratchett calls "knurd" here, Buddists call "enlightenment".

The Buddhists certainly wouldn't agree that enlightenment is "excruciating." To the contrary, that's what a mind experiences when it's on the brink of awakening but can't let go of the fundamental illusion of 'self.'

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#147

Post by acollins1331 »

serverholic wrote: post #105
acollins1331 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. There are lots of bad things in the world that do happen. Maybe more bad then good. You have one life to live and sitting around being depressed or angry about them is just a waste of time.

Wow how did I not think of that before! Just don't be depressed. It's so easy!

I'm not prescribing a cure for depression. However, for people who are angry or sad about macro atrocities in teh world, it is good advice to rationally know that focusing on it is a waste of time.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#148

Post by acollins1331 »

spinach wrote: post #139
acollins1331 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. There are lots of bad things in the world that do happen. Maybe more bad then good. You have one life to live and sitting around being depressed or angry about them is just a waste of time.

Depression is more about a loss of vitality than it is about 'being sad', although it manifests with lots of negative thoughts. You can't just suddenly become more alive or have tons more energy, although drugs and therapy can help. And telling people to 'snap out of it' does not help someone who is depressed. It's like if you're really, really, really sleepy. You can't just suddenly be super awake. You can take pill…

I was just replying to his post, not prescribing a cure for depression.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#149

Post by username90 »

ModelTheorist12 wrote: post #133
username90 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When last did you take the curvature of the Earth into account when arranging your furniture? I don't do that, but neither do I assume that the entire earth is flat just because my living room is. Saying that all theories are born equal is nonsense, some things are more correct than others.

It doesn't matter what we SAY about the shape of the Earth though, does it? It only matters how we use/apply those theories in practice. Practical errors have consequences. Theoretical errors don't. It's just lip service without follow-through. I can SAY that the Earth is triangular and nothing will happen. Q.E.D If you insist that it is in (some way) wrong or incorrect for me to say that the Earth is triangular. Wel…

But when you go out and try to spread your gospel that the earth is triangular then people will correctly tell you to shut up and read some books before arguing further.

Re: Depressed People See the World More Realistically (2017)

#150

Post by ModelTheorist12 »

username90 wrote: post #149
ModelTheorist12 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter what we SAY about the shape of the Earth though, does it? It only matters how we use/apply those theories in practice. Practical errors have consequences. Theoretical errors don't. It's just lip service without follow-through. I can SAY that the Earth is triangular and nothing will happen. Q.E.D If you insist that it is in (some way) wrong or incorrect for me to say that the Earth is triangular. Wel…

But when you go out and try to spread your gospel that the earth is triangular then people will correctly tell you to shut up and read some books before arguing further.

So can I tell you "shut up and consult some geodesic models" when you spread the gospel that Earth is round?

Because strictly and Mathematically speaking, Earth is NOT round. It's NOT spherical or oblate either.

Why do you selectively reject some approximations (models!), but accept others?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Terrestrial_Reference...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Geodetic_System

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